Accountability is police commissing in action
Download MP3Accountability is police commissing in action. Somehow, Pavlek returned. This week, we've got updates on seventy sixth Ave redevelopment and the police commission.
Mack Male:Plus, we'll talk about some Edmonton food faves.
Troy Pavlek:Hi. I'm Troy.
Mack Male:I'm Mack.
Troy Pavlek:And we're Speaking municipally. Welcome back to Speaking Municipally episode 292.
Troy Pavlek:Thanks to Stephanie for stepping in last week in an emergency last minute sub off. That snow squall, the snow squall of twenty twenty five. I think the temperature and pressure difference, I got a nasty migraine, and I had no interest in talking about municipal politics. So I'm glad she was able to step in, and I'm sad to have missed the interview with Eddie. But at least we had some good talent getting it done.
Mack Male:That's right. And we're glad to have you back, Troy. Lots more podcasting to be done in 2025.
Troy Pavlek:I wanna start the podcast off with some pretty bad news overall. If you are like me, you have casually and recreationally, often with a bit of smugness, told people about West Edmonton Mall have the the world's largest parking lot. And this week, Reddit user, you, spam in a can, went on Google Maps on his free time and counted some parking stalls. Oh, this is all, you know, ballpark estimations. But according to the record, West Edmonton Mall is supposed to have over 20000 stalls in its main lot with over 10000 overflow stalls.
Troy Pavlek:And this Reddit user was able to count maybe around 10000 in the main lot including the multiple levels, and just over a thousand stalls in the overflow lot. So that's a true and literal meaning of the word decimation of parking in that overflow lot. And that means in total, there's maybe, like, 11 or 12000 stalls far cry from the 30 k. Of course, if you have a question about West Edmonton Mall, you go to Matt Dutschak, the best Edmonton Mall guy. Yeah.
Troy Pavlek:And he jumped in the thread and said, quote, the number in that record is not currently valid. OP is correct. Original poster. I know this for a fact. End quote.
Troy Pavlek:And he goes on to say that the mall has expanded a lot over the years, and the overflow has shrunk immensely. And basically, unless someone challenges the record, it's kinda just gonna stay on the books and get repeated. And that's where West Edmonton Mall is. We probably did have the largest parking lot in the world at some point between 1980 and now, but we don't anymore.
Mack Male:Okay. Let me ask a few follow-up questions. This is really fascinating. It's totally an Edmonton thing. Right?
Mack Male:To be upset that we lost the world record for number of parking stalls. 30000 down to 11000. Does that mean we never actually had, you know, 20000 plus 10000? Like, is the record wrong, or did we actually expand the footprint of the mall in that time to take over those spots?
Troy Pavlek:So Matt did comment on that a little bit. He said, you know, he's not quite certain if we ever did hold the record. But when Guinness assigns records, they often send certifiers out to the thing. They have a process. And he does note that there are parking stalls that the public cannot see.
Troy Pavlek:See. We're talking about things like underground parkades, private staff parking, that sort of thing. And back in 1980, phase 2, phase 3, they weren't done yet. So the mall will have expanded into the parking footprint, and the overflow has been sold off for other ventures. So it is possible we legitimately had 30000.
Troy Pavlek:But, like, you can't go to historical aerial photography back from 1980. Like, there's not a lot of solid records keeping about this.
Mack Male:Not easily, anyway. Yeah. Okay. And then my other question, what is an overflow stall? Like, aren't all the parking stalls around where I'm just parking stalls?
Mack Male:Like, what's the different what's the delineation that these people are counting?
Troy Pavlek:There's a lot across the street. It's where they've installed that new temporary, transit center. If you just go across the street, I think that's north. I wanna say it's north across that street. It's the overflow lot where no one is parked there except on Boxing Day.
Mack Male:And Got it.
Troy Pavlek:Allegedly that overflow lot used to be 10000 stalls. It's definitely not 10000 anymore. I can't say I was particularly proud of this record, but, you know, maybe I was. It, like, it it gave me this weird sense of, like, I liked repeating it. I liked having it.
Troy Pavlek:I liked being able to you know, it's an ugly painting, but it's your ugly painting. Right? Sure. It's not a record you wanna have, but Edmonton's a car city. Okay.
Troy Pavlek:We'll have the big boots parking lot. I liked it.
Mack Male:And for the longest time talking to people about Edmonton, it was either Edmonton Oilers or West Edmonton Mall. You know? Whatever records we had, the dynasty of the sports team, 5 Stanley Cups, largest parking mall, indoor roller coaster, you know, all the things that don't exist anymore.
Troy Pavlek:Maybe this is just a specter of things to come. The Valley Line West will be providing public transit to West Edmonton Mall, hopefully in a couple years unoptimistically in a few decades. Maybe this is just us graduating to the next phase of Sim City where you have public transit serving them all instead of a 10000 overflow parking lot. But just like our record, other things are not to be any longer. We saw the writing on the wall for this 1 as well.
Troy Pavlek:The EMRB has voted to become no more.
Mack Male:Yeah. So just as a reminder for listeners, this started when the USP government in Nov. 0 announced that it would, abruptly announced, I should say, that it would cut funding for the boards in both Edmonton and Calgary, and it would make membership in those boards voluntary, whereas in the past, it had been mandatory. The EMRB was receiving about a million dollars a year from the province and so it's a not insignificant amount of money. The other $1.9 million came from the municipalities themselves.
Mack Male:You know, the money is important, but really what this was about is that voluntary aspect. A lot of, the municipalities in the region have been voting on this. Warrenville voted on Jan. 14 to tell the minister that they wouldn't participate in the voluntary board. This week at council in Edmonton, City Council held a special council meeting, and the mayor put forward the same motion to say that Edmonton would not participate voluntarily in the board.
Mack Male:The writing was on the wall, as you said. And so the EMRB itself at its board meeting on the, Jan. 23 as we're recording this, voted unanimously to dissolve the organization. And so this dissolution of EMRB was broken into a few different parts. They're gonna wind down the board as of March '31.
Mack Male:They're gonna send a letter to the municipal affairs minister about their decision, and the board is gonna appoint a trustee to deal with the remaining assets and and whatever is left over from the organization as of April 1. So it seems like the EMRB is not to be.
Troy Pavlek:That's a podcast episode throwback. As a reminder, the EMRB is the Edmonton Metropolitan Region Board. This is the 1 that focuses on planning issues and where do we put stuff in our region? Edmonton Global, that's the 1 that's still going on, and that focuses more on the business aspect, recruiting larger businesses to the admin. The work was often tightly knit and confusing about what fell to what, but this is mostly a abdication of future planning.
Troy Pavlek:It's not to say that the region won't come together and plan together and collaborate, but it needs to be ad hoc and specifically done. There's now no longer someone saying, go sit at the kiddie table, eat your vegetables, and do regional planning.
Mack Male:Yeah. I mean, it remains to be seen exactly how what this will turn into. Colin, who wrote the story, spoke to a number of different municipal leaders around the region, including Alan Gamble, the mayor of Parkland County, and Jeff Acker, the mayor of Spruce Grove, you know, even mayor Sohee here in Edmonton. They all kinda signaled that there's work that EMRB was responsible for, that planning, that coordination that they would like to see continue in some capacity. And Edmonton, you know, I think we've speculated on the show before, needs to be the 1 to drive that.
Mack Male:Right? We're the big municipality in the region. And so as part of the the motion at council this week, the mayor's motion did instruct administration to collaborate with these other municipalities in the region to, quote, initiate a new voluntary regional governance table, end quote, and bring back a draft MOU with whoever's interested. So I think the idea here is all 13 probably don't wanna be involved. They were only involved because the province told them they had to be, but maybe 6 or 7 of them do wanna be involved.
Mack Male:And so let's form something new so that those of us who want to can come together and coordinate on this kind of stuff.
Troy Pavlek:You know, Mike, we haven't released the tape on this, but you and I talked to mayor Sohee at the end of the year, and Taproot did some reporting on that year end interview as well. I think Stephanie wrote up that article. And I do recall when we were speaking to mayor Sohi, him saying something along the lines of we'll do whatever we can to save the EMRB.
Amarjeet Sohi:Oh, Edmonton is deeply committed to EMRB, and I have shared my personal commitment as mayor and on behalf of council because council is committed as well to, to the board, board chair, and, and to the leadership. We're gonna do whatever we can in our capacity to save the good work and carry on the good work because, the the growth plan dictates how our region grows. This work has been recognized nationally and internationally, and there's a lot to be proud of. And I think all of us are committed to, continue on their collaboration.
Troy Pavlek:You know, this decision, with admin in saying, peace, we're out, seems a little bit antithetical to what we heard.
Mack Male:Yeah. I mean, he said we very much believe in the work of the regional board, and we we we wanna see it continue. So it kinda got a sense that they'll be that, you know, big municipality that's gonna find a way to navigate this. They're already fighting with the province about other stuff. Why not this too?
Mack Male:Maybe this is just a practical reality, right, that, if the the voluntary board that the province created, nobody wants to be part of that. Let's go make our own table, And maybe that's the way to carry on the work. And and I guess the spirit of what he was after there is to not lose that ability for the municipalities who want to to be able to work together. And, and his motion is a different way of accomplishing that than we might have interpreted.
Troy Pavlek:I subscribe to the Pulse, like you all should, dear listeners. And this morning, it was exciting because, you know, the Pulse usually keeps me appraised of what's going on around Edmonton. But occasionally, I get a thing as, like, this one's for me. This one's close to home. And, of course, this morning's Pulse as we're recording on Thursday, Jan.
Troy Pavlek:23, you know the story I'm talking about in the pulse. There was coverage on paths for people's motion proposal pitch. Idea. Yeah. It's quote, unquote a bold vision for 70 Sixth Ave.
Troy Pavlek:During the, trestle bridge rehabilitation and, collector renewal, basically close the road at the bottom of the ravine to cars forever, make it a creek, and make it pedestrian only. And I was excited to see that come through. And, you know, I think you shrewdly over there at Taproot knew that, like, this was the type of story that would get some attention on Reddit. And lo and behold, I opened up the Edmonton subreddit. You had posted it.
Troy Pavlek:It's got a lot of comments, a lot of upvotes, a lot of people saying things on it. And I just wanted to bring this up, Mac, because even the people in the comment section that were right were wrong. Everyone was so wrong about this.
Mack Male:We don't post things to Reddit just to get attention, but it's a helpful way to distribute our stories. And you're right. This is the kind of topic that I think is perfectly aligned. There's a lot of Venn diagram overlap with the Reddit community. Right?
Mack Male:70 Sixth Avenue crosses the ravine atop a culvert. There's the trestle bridge and the culvert that are already in the budget, the capital budget to be rehabilitated or replaced. They're part of a larger, project, so there's funding for that. And what I understand is that PAS4People came along and said, wow, that's gonna happen pretty quickly. Time is running out to influence that project and maybe do something different.
Mack Male:So that's why this came up now. Right? They've been they said they've been percolating on this idea, but with the bridge replacement project happening, time is of the essence, so to speak. So why was everyone wrong, Troy?
Troy Pavlek:This story is 1 that we saw on, like, Saskatchewan Drive when every year we close a lane of Saskatchewan Drive and make it an active mobility lane. And people can walk and bike and engage in all manner of fun activities, and everything's fine. Mhmm. No catastrophe happens. It's the story of 102 Ave downtown where it is closed 2 cars completely for over half a decade, and yet the idea of keeping that closed to cars is unfathomable.
Troy Pavlek:All businesses would close. Parkades would riot. It would be the end of the world. This is the same story here because I opened up Reddit and read all the comments of people saying, you know, this is a very important East West connector. We need it to get out of the neighborhood.
Troy Pavlek:You know, cars wouldn't be able to function without this roadway. Yeah. And Mac, it's closed. I'm here on 70 First Ave right now. If I walk 5 blocks north, you can't go westbound on 70 Sixth Ave because it's been closed for the past three weeks and will be closed for another two weeks as they're doing some of the preemptory work for the culvert replacement.
Troy Pavlek:And you know what's gonna happen in three months, Mac? It's gonna close for a year and a half for collector renewal. There is no situation whether we're building a new superhighway through, whether we're leaving it as is, whether we're closing. The road is going to close to all vehicle traffic for the better part of a year and a half. And if it's so critical that, like, we absolutely need vehicle traffic, how can we close it for a year and a half?
Troy Pavlek:How is that possible? The problem is at the bottom of the, hill, there's a culvert underneath. The culvert is degrading. So essentially, what they need to do is they need to build a bridge at the bottom of a ravine. They're building a vehicle bridge.
Troy Pavlek:It's gonna cost 10 to 20 ish million dollars to build this vehicle bridge. And this is the bold idea from Paths for People. It's like people are reading this and saying, oh, I don't wanna spend a bunch of money to close this. The proposal here is to just let's not spend $20,000,000 on a bridge we don't need.
Mack Male:Right. Which sounds like given our fiscal reality like a wise thing to put forward.
Troy Pavlek:It it does. It does sound like a very wise thing. And, like, you know, I live in the neighborhood. My partner works on the North Side of the city. And every day, the route she takes to get over to 70 Fifth is 70 Sixth Ave.
Troy Pavlek:She drives along it. And you know what she's done when it's been closed the past couple weeks?
Mack Male:Found another route.
Troy Pavlek:Took a different route. It's fine. It doesn't change her commute at all. It's just that was a nicer road because there's trees there, and she preferred it. That's the story of most of the traffic issues in the city of Edmonton.
Troy Pavlek:This 1 is no exception.
Mack Male:It reminds me a lot of of the avenue near my house, A Hundred And Second Avenue. Same story. Closed for a long time for LRT construction. Finally reopens. You know, we had this story just before the holidays.
Mack Male:Traffic is down 90%. Right? There's 600 cars a day as opposed to 6000. Why? Because it's not very friendly to cars anymore, and they had already found another route.
Mack Male:They got used to driving a different way. That's what happens.
Troy Pavlek:So as you say, time is of the essence here. The rehabilitation for some of the culvert work is happening right now, to stabilize some slopes and, prepare for some of the work. And it will close later this summer to align with 76 Ave Collector renewal, at which point that's when they're going to do this work. I don't think we can avoid doing this work. Like, I really appreciate paths for people's pitch here.
Troy Pavlek:I think it's a good idea. I'd be ecstatic if we could do it. Yeah. I don't think we can. I think it's too late in the game.
Troy Pavlek:I think I know my neighborhood. I've talked to my neighbors. No. They're not gonna go for this. It's they they could be convinced, you know, after having it for two years that it was a great idea.
Troy Pavlek:But to get them to go for it is a hard ask and to get them to go for it on such a tight timeline seems sort of like flying by the seat of the pants. So this probably probably isn't gonna happen.
Mack Male:But but surely you don't have to convince your neighbors. You need to convince the transportation planning department at the city.
Troy Pavlek:And I wish paths for people all the best in doing so. I was sent an email, asked if I'd like to join the fight, and I'm like, I will support this. I think it's a great plan. You're on your own on this 1, though. I like to win, and it's not gonna be a winner.
Troy Pavlek:And this is, Mac, how I can hold 2 ideas in my same head. I can spend the past six minutes of this podcast episode ranting about how people who oppose this are wrong and then do absolutely nothing to further the goal of getting it done. Quintessential Edmontonianism, just like our parking lot. Of course, there's another piece of quintessential Edmontonianism, Mac. It's the police commission.
Troy Pavlek:I would have thought that, you know, with Chief Dale McPhee retiring just, in a few months, moving on to greener pastures, The bread and butter of the police commission's work is gonna be focused on recruiting a new chief. We're not gonna see a bunch of drama and interpersonal conflicts or anything. Mac, I'm wrong about that for sure.
Mack Male:You might think chief Dale McPhee has got his post at the province. He's headspace should be in what's his new job gonna be, and doesn't seem like that's the case. He's very much engaged in the politics of policing in Edmonton still. So what happened here is that the Edmonton Police Commission had 2 recent appointments from Edmonton City Council. They appointed Dan Jones, a NorQuest College criminologist and a former police officer, and Renee Vazjois, who's the Executive Director of the John Humphrey Center for Peace and Human Rights.
Mack Male:And, you know, when I saw that appointment, I definitely was like, interesting. Like, Dan Jones, he's a police guy. He's a former officer himself. You know, it seems to make sense. I hadn't really connected in my head at the time that what people might have an issue with is that former police officers have not been a part of the commission and there might be some, you know, rank things that are a consideration there.
Mack Male:And so, that was that. And then Renee, you know, I've heard her activism in policing and policing issues in Edmonton and I thought what a great person to have around the table. I think the commission should have a diversity of perspectives and she's someone who has been both critical of the police and collaborative with the police, and it seems to me like that would be a great person to have on the commission. Chief Dale McPhee does not agree. The police service does not agree, and they sent a request to the minister asking them basically to investigate this, alleging dysfunction between counsel and the commission and saying that these appointments are problematic given the need for commissioners to have some independence.
Mack Male:And the issue that the chief and the police have with them is Dan Jones, former police officer himself, it's kinda strange that a lower ranking person might oversee a higher ranking person. He's not a current police officer, but, you know, there are those dynamics at play. And also, he says some family connections, people who are still in the police service as my understanding. Dan Jones resigned when this news broke that there was some concern about his appointment. He said he himself had been feeling a little bit uncomfortable about some of those dynamics, and so the commission asked him to step back while the investigation was ongoing, and he just straight up resigned.
Mack Male:Renee did not do that. She posted on LinkedIn about, you know, how she's done nothing wrong except express opinions about the police service. And really, the concern from the police about her position is, you know, the work that the JHC has done in criticizing the police is specifically the Safer for All documentary and comments that were made both in online media posts and as part of that documentary. You know, call into question for the police chief and the police service, their ability to independently, you know, oversee the police as a commissioner.
Troy Pavlek:So there's a few things to unpack there. But I think the first one is that you mentioned, there were some concerns about conflict of interest on Dan Jones' appointment. There's only 1 reason you know about that though, and that's because the complaint that, Chief Dale McPhee made was leaked and the Edmonton Journal got a hold of it. There's been no public communication from the EPS. And in fact, the service just said in terms of their justification, the only reason they're asking for an investigation has to do with the public activities of the 2 individuals.
Troy Pavlek:And that was all that they would say. Yeah. So, you know, there's a bit of a transparency and accountability problem there, which is ironic given it's about the accountability organization there. Of course, the other thing that most people should be bumping on is is not the role of the Edmonton Police Commission to govern and hold accountable the Edmonton Police Service, why in the world would the service have a say on who is holding them accountable and governing them? How could that ever make sense?
Mack Male:Right. In what world does it make sense for the police chief to be leading the charge about the commission? I mean, this is a city council and province is the reality now, and maybe this is where those political connections come into play. Like, the council and the province are the 2 that decide the makeup of the commission, not the police service, not the police chief. And yet, Dale McPhee, the most powerful man in Edmonton when it comes to these issues, is is, able to tweak the lever there and and ask for this investigation.
Troy Pavlek:Maybe we should just give the EPS the ability to appoint people to Edmonton City Council. Just have them appoint some city councilors. Might might as well. It makes as much sense. The EPS does not have the ability to remove police commissioners.
Troy Pavlek:The, mechanism they're using is complaining to the province and writing to the minister. Yeah. I did give me some pause though because if we're looking at, you know, portfolios who's going to action this, it wouldn't be out of the question, for example, the deputy minister of executive council and head of the Alberta public service to perhaps weigh in or rule on this. And who would that be? Well, in a couple months, Dale McPhee, maybe he'll be recused from this decision making.
Troy Pavlek:Maybe it will fall in the different ministerial portfolio. We don't know how that's gonna shake out at the provincial level. And, of course, I think all of this has to do with the new chief that's coming in. Ostensibly, the makeup of the commission is critically important right now because the commission will be deciding who will be the chief of police in Edmonton for the next few years. How powerful a police chief can be and how they can concentrate power within their office.
Troy Pavlek:If you get this wrong, what is wrong is a matter of perspective depending on who you are. It could be very bad for you or for the other side as it were. That's where the politics is coming in very strong here. There is a huge fight for the police chief, and no one quite wants to lose. Like you, when Dan Jones and Renee were, appointed to the police commission, I'm like, oh, okay.
Troy Pavlek:City council is making some moves. Like when they appointed Ben Henderson, who is now the chair of the police commission, I'm like, okay. You know, the composition of this board is changing a little bit. There's clearly some effort to make some changes. And I think that's happening on all sides.
Mack Male:Yeah. Another bit of context here is that, you know, in addition to appointing those 2 as commissioners, counsel chose not to renew commissioner Anne Marie Lambert's appointment. And that was something that the police chief questioned, wondered why she was not reinstated as a commissioner, and the province went and reinstated her. And so there's a little bit of political, you know, stuff at play there between council and the province. And, you know, I found myself in some ways nodding in agreement with the the statement from the chief.
Mack Male:He said, quote, this application is not advanced casually, but only after a few years of witnessing the broad erosion of the governance relationship between Edmonton City Council, the Edmonton Police Commission, and the Edmonton Police Service, end quote. Like, I think I yeah. I agree with you. There's an erosion of the the governance relationship there, but the reason why I'm sure we would disagree upon for for why that erosion has taken place. You mentioned Ben Henderson.
Mack Male:He's the newly elected chair of the police commission, former city councilor. He says dysfunction is too strong a word, even though I think all the rest of us would agree.
Troy Pavlek:It seems pretty dysfunctional.
Mack Male:He said it's been a little bit tense, and he said that was 1 of the reasons why he decided to step up into the chair's position because he felt like he could repair some of those relationships, but, remains to be seen how successful he'll be at that. And given the recent changes here and the, you know, the request for an investigation, the appointment, non appointment of Lambert, like, it's a tough road ahead to try to build those rebuild those relationships. And and you're right, a lot of it will center around the new police chief.
Troy Pavlek:Wouldn't it serve us all better if the Edmonton Police Commission was like the school boards of old? Council has no say anymore. Right? The police commission is responsible for the police. Whether they're elected commissioners or appointed by the province, doesn't matter to me.
Troy Pavlek:You know, let's call a spade a spade. But I want the police commission to have taxation powers. I don't want my Edmonton property taxes to pay for the police. If the police want a new helicopter and it's gonna cause a 7% raise, I think they should go to the taxpayers and raise the police tax levy by 7%. I think that's transparent.
Troy Pavlek:I think that's accountable. And I think that solves the problem that everyone wants here. If you don't wanna have to go hat in hand to city council, fine. Require taxpayers to pay. You don't even have to ask the taxpayers.
Troy Pavlek:You have taxation power. You can force it on taxpayers. I think the main aspect of dysfunction for the Edmonton Police Commission comes from simply lying about what it's actually doing. It says that it's accountable to city council, but it doesn't show up for city council meetings or provide it with audit reports. It says it's there to hold police accountable.
Troy Pavlek:It doesn't hold meetings in public in person. Oftentimes, when the public wants to show up to speak, their time is limited or there's not much public discussion about items and it doesn't appear to have any disciplinary measures being levied against police. Then you get statements like from Dale McPhee in regards to this appointment where he said specifically that having statements in the public that are critical of the Edmonton Police means that you have bias that makes you unable to hold police accountable. That's an erosion of public confidence in the body. If being critical of the police means you are unable to serve on the board overseeing the police, you have tacitly confirmed that you have a board of yes men that simply rubber stamp whatever the chief wants.
Troy Pavlek:I'm a fan of just calling a spade a spade.
Mack Male:Criminologist Temetope Oriola, who we've had on the show before, published an op ed today about this whole situation, to your point about just calling it what it is. He wrote, quote, what we are witnessing is tantamount to bureaucratic insubordination. It is important that we do not normalize the behavior of the top echelon of the EPS. It is not normal.
Troy Pavlek:I don't know what the future of the police commission holds, and I don't know what it's going to look like in three months. And this isn't an exciting new venture I'm proud to foray into. This is existential dread.
Mack Male:But we'll be here to cover that existential dread.
Troy Pavlek:I do know the cure for most existential dread though, eating your problems away. And Mac, I'm excited to present this is my favorite new segment on the podcast. It's Troy and Mac eat food on the podcast. We recorded this, at work nicer in person with Linda and Sharon. You'll hear all about it for the next couple of weeks, as we go through the Edmonton food phase.
Troy Pavlek:So I guess roll the tape.
Mack Male:Well, I've had an inside look at the creation of a list of food favorites, restaurants throughout the Edmonton region over the last several months. Well, years, actually. It's years in the making. And, that's because my better half, Sharon Yeo, is 1 of the 2 people that created the Yeg.
Troy Pavlek:I think both halves are great.
Mack Male:Yeah. Thank you, Troy. The Yeg Food Phase We Crave list. And we thought it'd be great to have Sharon and her co creator of the list, Linda Huang, on the show to talk to us a little bit about how that came to be and what are their favorites and what does that say about the city that we live in. We occasionally talk about arts and food on this podcast, especially, you know, when we're enjoying restaurants or festivals or whatever.
Mack Male:So it's not entirely to the side of speaking municipally as usual topics. And as we know, food is political in lots of different ways. It intersects with our lives in lots of different ways. And so it's also an excuse for us to eat some food trucks.
Troy Pavlek:If we didn't eat, we would die and there would be no podcast. That's right.
Mack Male:That's right.
Troy Pavlek:This is a mandatory segment.
Mack Male:Sharon, Linda, food writers in Edmonton, welcome to the podcast. Hello.
Linda Hoang:Thanks for having us.
Sharon Yeo:Yes. Thank you.
Mack Male:Or welcome back to the podcast. First time for you, Linda?
Linda Hoang:We've actually we've discussed the Catfest before, I believe.
Mack Male:Oh, you were on for Catfest. My mistake. That's right.
Linda Hoang:Oh, first time, not just about food.
Mack Male:Multifaceted.
Troy Pavlek:As I was saying before the show, we can edit out if our guests make mistakes, host's mistakes, or stay in right in. Yeah.
Mack Male:We'll leave that 1 in there. Well, thanks for coming to talk to us about the list. We're gonna sample some stuff from your favorites, which I'm looking forward to. But maybe first of all, and for our listeners, Sharon, give us the elevator pitch. What is Yeg Food FaZe We Crave?
Sharon Yeo:So Linda and I have been a part of, committees that have have drafted some of the mainstream lists, in publications, such as Edify. And so we've had an insider look on how some of those lists are created. And I think 1 of our takeaways from that process is even though some of these lists might, posit themselves as being sort of the best of, They are really just a collection of people putting forward their subjective opinions on the the places that they like to visit. And so for us, in our process of of, drafting this list, which we did at first in 2022, we, made an intentional choice to call it our favorites. And our favorites are informed by all of the subjective things that anyone's favorites list would be in terms of, you know, where we live.
Sharon Yeo:So places that we might frequent more often than others, places that we've maybe grown up visiting, neighborhoods that we really enjoy, types of food that we really like to enjoy. And so it is deliberately called Faves We Crave because it is our favorites. And we're not saying that they're the best. They're just the the favorites in our hearts.
Linda Hoang:It's very biased. We are very upfront about that. The list is super biased towards Sharon and myself, our preferences, and opinions. But, I mean, I would argue that some of these are definitely the best. So even though, officially, they're our favorites, there's there some of them are really, really good.
Linda Hoang:Yeah.
Mack Male:I mean, I tried to influence Sharon's picks, but she was pretty firm on hers. So I think it's fair to say it's Linda and Sharon's favorites. It wasn't just, I'm imagining that you were annoyed with the way the mainstream lists come together. Linda, why else did you decide to do all this work and make a list? Like, what was the reason that made you think, yeah, we definitely need to create this list?
Linda Hoang:Yeah. And I mean, Mac, I wouldn't say we were annoyed with how other lists are created. I think it was really
Mack Male:She needed.
Linda Hoang:No. No. I'm not gonna participate in that line of questioning. I'm gonna say, honestly, me and Sharon, as food writers, long time food writers in the city, we actually get asked a lot
Mack Male:Mhmm.
Linda Hoang:All the time, like, every week, from lots of different people. Hey. Where should I go for brunch? Hey, actually, I get this 1 a lot, and I really do take it quite seriously. I get date night a lot.
Linda Hoang:Mhmm. You know, where we only go out, you know, once a month. If this is our big date night, where should we go? And I'm like, woah. Woah.
Linda Hoang:Woah. Okay. I gotta make sure that what I recommend is gonna blow you, you know, blow you away. So it was really kind of spurred from that is that we are often, responding because we want to be helpful, and we do eat quite a bit. So we kind of have that in our minds.
Linda Hoang:We thought it would actually be just easier to have a list, a link that we could then send to people. Check out this list. And if you still have questions, we're happy to recommend, a few more things. But that was that was really, I would say, 1 of the main drivers is that it's a question we know that comes up a lot.
Mack Male:Yeah.
Linda Hoang:And I think people like to organize their eating in, like, a list format or, like, a I can check this off, you know, kind of process.
Troy Pavlek:The the Pokedex
Linda Hoang:format. Yeah. Yeah. The Pokedex for eating in Edmonton. You can that'll be the subtitle of the podcast.
Mack Male:And you even made a PDF passport that people could just go and check off as they go through. So you can find the list at edmontonfoodfaves.ca. It sounds like the list is kind of for you so that you can just not have to give someone the recommendation again. Like, who's the list for?
Sharon Yeo:I mean, I I think it's a list for anyone who is looking to start to explore Edmonton's independent restaurants. Obviously, you know, in terms of the places that Linda and I like to frequent, more of them are independent, owned by families and individuals instead of sort of the big conglomerate chains. And we know the big conglomerate chains have the marketing budget to make a big splash in the local media, but some of these smaller places don't. And so, you know, we definitely ensured that some of our favorite places that are, again, not maybe as splashy, or as new as some of the other places that have been highlighted more recently, they play a prominent role on this list. And I think just adding to Linda's earlier point about, the reason for the list, I think the other piece too is just so many of the food recommendations, I think, nowadays come through social media.
Sharon Yeo:They're sort of they are in your feed, you know, momentarily and maybe don't remember them. And so for us, like, we're just trying to coalesce and make it easier to for people to find good places in Edmonton in an organized way, whether that's in a passport process or not Mhmm. Just so that there is something for for folks to come back to, you know, places that are reliable, that have been around the block, that have demonstrated, you know, a consistency and an excellence in terms of food and service. And we're really trying to, you know, drive them that business because we know business is hard to come by now. And so, you know, if we can help even a small amount of of driving some new or returning customers their way, that would, I think, be helpful in maintaining the kind of food scene that we want to see.
Mack Male:Yeah. I mean, I can find your list from 2022 still online. And you can't rely on this fleeting social media post. Donald Trump is gonna come along and say TikTok, but, you know, all the other posts, they disappear after twenty four hours. So I promised Troy, if you were gonna come on the show, that we'd have some food and drink to sample.
Mack Male:What have you brought for us first to try?
Sharon Yeo:So I think we can start maybe with the 0 proof black diamond cranberry cocktail. So 1 of the new categories that we have on the list this year, we added 5 new categories to the 15 that we had in our twenty twenty two list. So 1 of them, of course, is sort of in that vein of a lot of folks have been looking for nonalcoholic drinks because we know folks are either cutting back or cutting out alcohol. So 1 of the, drinks that we highlighted this year under my pick is the Black Diamond Distillery Zero Proof, cocktail. So we are going to try it.
Troy Pavlek:And this is the ASMR section
Mack Male:of the blog. Yeah.
Linda Hoang:Do it by the mic. Oh. That was actually really good.
Mack Male:Don't get it on the mic.
Linda Hoang:Yeah. Oh, true. This is for the Patreon.
Troy Pavlek:I love it. Yeah.
Mack Male:I love it. Love it.
Linda Hoang:This is Sharon's favorite non alcoholic, drink. Mine, we didn't bring, is bubble tea from Dagu Rice Noodle. Very, very good. They also have really good soups. And then our shared pick is a place called Spilt Zero Proof Bar.
Linda Hoang:They're actually Alberta's first and only dedicated nonalcoholic bar. And, yeah, lots, I think, of options. Lots more options these days for nonalcoholic.
Sharon Yeo:So this 1, they do actually also have an alcoholic version. So but for me, I chose this 1, and I was introduced to it, several years ago when I was pregnant with our second child. And so just looking for something that, again, I I could pull out of the fridge. And so it's it's nice that it's a canned cocktail that you can grab and and not have to think about it and just keep it on hand. They market it as Christmas in a cup because they have a lot of those seasonal spices that we associate with sort of the fall or sort of winter months, like, the like nutmeg and allspice and, clove.
Sharon Yeo:And so there's the the sweetness from the cranberry juice, but it's not it doesn't have any added sugars, which for me, is is huge because a lot of the canned cocktails that you see nowadays are just full of sugar. So there is no added sugar. It's just the natural sugars from the juice. So, yeah, what do you think you're
Troy Pavlek:right now? Description of Christmas in a cup kind and nailed it. Like, I took
Mack Male:a smell.
Troy Pavlek:Especially. Right? Yeah. And it's like cranberries and cinnamon. It's, like, very much I'm gonna go and sit in front of the mantle, read a book, and wait for the reindeer on the rim.
Mack Male:And
Linda Hoang:not and not get smashed. Totally coherent.
Troy Pavlek:Yeah. No. It gets smashed. This podcast is gonna get a lot more rowdy.
Linda Hoang:Can we do an ASMR where we're all just kinda drinking? Is there a mic sound with that?
Mack Male:Depends how you do it.
Troy Pavlek:Oh, it's it's picking up your your asparagus.
Mack Male:It's tasty. Could use some vodka maybe. No. I'm just kidding. I noticed that, you know, in your non alcoholic drink category, shared pick.
Mack Male:1 is a cocktail bar, 1 is a noodle restaurant, and 1 is a distillery. So I guess it was intentional that you call it food faves and not restaurants.
Sharon Yeo:Yeah. I think we tried to again, I I think maybe we can talk about this later with, the death match that Linda and I got into with with, finalizing our picks. But I think it it was just trying to to be representative of the kinds of businesses, the kinds of food and hospitality businesses that we have in our city. So, obviously, some of these places are restaurants. Some of the businesses, there is 1, in a different category that's a farmer's market vendor.
Sharon Yeo:So just trying to represent a lot of the different owners of businesses that you can get in the city and and being as representative as possible. I know we we've left off some of our favorites, but we are we were trying to be to be as as representative.
Linda Hoang:We did. And this is why it took so many months slash years back, you would have seen, is that we were really trying to also find a place for a favorite we had in a category that maybe it could be in, like, 3 different categories. But, like, we couldn't agree on the shared pick for once.
Mack Male:This is, the fair
Troy Pavlek:is a comedy,
Linda Hoang:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I'm sticking my noodle shop in drink because we have good drinks, for instance.
Sharon Yeo:But we still talk about the noodles because we really love the noodles. Yeah. Yep. Mhmm.
Troy Pavlek:So 1 of the things that's really interesting, and I mentioned this as I was coming in, is, like, this is a list for discovery as well. I am an Edmonton wonk. I've been here for forever, and I like local culture. I've been to half the places on your list. I do that.
Mack Male:Half is pretty good.
Troy Pavlek:I mean, I I was told that when I arrived, the
Mack Male:half was pretty good. Yeah. But I
Troy Pavlek:don't know. On the bus here, I was like, half. My Edmonton creds are down the toilet. But, like, that does mean that if I haven't been to most of the places on this list, you, listener, you can go discover somewhere new and make a new restauranteur's day by showing up unprompted to their business. Have you heard any feedback, positive or negative, from restaurants, from chefs about the creation of this list?
Troy Pavlek:Either obviously, not this year because it's new, but in previous years as well?
Linda Hoang:I think I've heard maybe casually, like, no one's, you know, pulling us off the street and being like, thank you so much.
Mack Male:I mean, you're you're both so famous already. So, like, what what do I what do I capture you for?
Linda Hoang:What I is actually interesting is we have heard from people maybe like you, Troy, who have used the list, have printed out the passport. 1 person, actually in the creation of the 2024 update, I was googling a few things, and I found this person's blog. And she was actually going through and blogging about the places that were on our 2022 list. So I thought that was really cool. We know that for sure it's bringing people in there, but I don't think, I mean, I I don't I don't like to take credit for, like, saving a place or, like, keeping a place going.
Linda Hoang:That's too much pressure.
Sharon Yeo:Yeah. I I think, like, our our intentions are to drive folks to the restaurant, but I don't I don't think either of us would say that, you know, we we would expect a list like this to really, you know, save a restaurant if a restaurant was was facing difficulty. I think it's just, again, trying to bring that awareness. As you said, Troy, like, there's places that have been doing really well in terms of offering really consistent, food and service for a really long time, but some people just don't know about it. Right?
Sharon Yeo:Because they they don't go to that neighborhood. Maybe they don't usually frequent, those kinds of establishments. So it's really just trying to get the word out there as much as possible because, again, we we do know that some of them are are struggling and and could do better.
Troy Pavlek:I mean, Troy's fave brunch in the city can no longer get because it was Bira, and it is now as in this new year gone forever.
Linda Hoang:I was so sad about that.
Troy Pavlek:It's if you don't use it, you lose it. That's the that's the restaurant mantra.
Mack Male:I'm sure we'll talk more with you about don't use it, you'll lose it. But for this first conversation, thank you so much for bringing the sample. Where should people go to find the list?
Linda Hoang:Yeah. So you can access the list including our sort of in-depth thoughts about why we chose these places, at edmontonfoodfaves.ca. And on that as well, you can find a printable, passport file that, you know, I do I I know people personally that have printed it, put it on their fridge, and have kind of made their way through it. Are we still doing resolutions, you know, New Year's resolutions? This is a fun New Year's resolution, I think, that would work just for that.
Mack Male:Great. Thank you so much. Okay. Edmontonfoodvase.ca, easy to remember. We're gonna ask you more about the list.
Mack Male:You're gonna come back again next week, and we'll do that. And we'll ask you about, in more detail, the 20 categories that you came up with. We gotta eat more. I think that's, the takeaway here. We've got 1 more thing to run, and that's, from Taproot Edmonton's managing editor, Tim Quarengeser, to tell us all about what the newsroom has been up to in addition to the things we've already mentioned on the show.
Mack Male:Tim, over to you.
Tim Querengesser:Thanks, Mack. Here's what the Taproot newsroom worked on this week. The Edmonton Metropolitan Region Board is no more. As Colin Gallant reported, the 13 member municipalities of the board voted unanimously at a Jan. 23 meeting to wind the organization down.
Tim Querengesser:The decision follows the Nov. 0 decision by the United Conservative Party government to cut its yearly funding to the board and change participation rules from mandatory to optional. But as Colin reported, many mayors still want to find a way to collaborate on regional development. Meanwhile, Stephanie Swensrud reported on a vision advocacy group, Paths for People has created and shared with the city for 70 Sixth Avenue between the Ritchie and King Edward Park neighborhoods. As Stephanie reported, the proposal comes on the heels of work the city will do for other pieces of infrastructure in the area and suggests removing vehicle access from the roadway altogether.
Tim Querengesser:As always, our reporting continued in our 7 weekly roundups that offer reliable intelligence on everything from food to tech to the overall region to business. In our business roundup this week, we examined what local companies think should happen to combat the 25% tariffs promised by newly installed United States president Donald Trump. If you have a comment, concern, or suggestion about our journalism, email me, the managing editor at hello@taprootedmonton.ca. And now back to the show.
Troy Pavlek:Okay. Just going through my list of everything we were supposed to cover this episode. Check. Check. Check.
Troy Pavlek:We've got, Tim. Oh, Mack. Of course. The rapid fire segment. Alberta has once again released the most common baby names in the province for the past year.
Troy Pavlek:But speaking municipality is able to exclusively release a new list which names the biggest baby in the province, and that's you. I've read your additions to Facebook comment sections. I've seen how you act when you're losing a board game. And seriously, look at you right now with your thumb in your mouth sucking for comfort. What a big baby.
Troy Pavlek:I don't know why I'm antagonizing them, but I am.
Mack Male:Oilers star Connor McDavid has written a letter to the NHL commissioner requesting the unappointment of all officials that have issued his three game suspension. In a statement, he said, quote, I believe in strong oversight and safety on the ice, and we need independent and functional oversight. However, this decision personally affects me in a negative way, and that conclusively proves the officials have unreasonable bias and must be fired immediately.
Troy Pavlek:With Mark Carney announcing his federal liberal leadership campaign in Edmonton, Former Liberal Minister Amarjeet Sohi sought to distance himself from the federal liberals and went off grid. When we caught up with him later in the LRT tunnels with no cell service and unable to read Instagram comments, he was despondent saying, quote, I should just vote against adding cell service down here. This was my last quiet place. And that's all we've got time for this week. Until next week, I'm Troy.
Mack Male:I'm Mack.
Linda Hoang:I'm Linda.
Sharon Yeo:I'm Sharon.
Troy Pavlek:And we're Speaking Municipally. I didn't prep them for that. We did it.
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