Speaking Municipally

Mack Male:
District energy needs a boost. This week, we look at the future of the downtown district energy system, which might not be that bright.

Stephanie Swensrude:
Plus, a new name is in store for Government Centre LRT station.

Mack:
Hi, I'm Mack.

Stephanie:
I'm Stephanie.

Mack:
And we're...

Both:
Speaking Municipally.

Mack:
Welcome back to Speaking Municipally, Episode 380. Uh, Stephanie, we've, uh, had a lot of budget talk lately. We're gonna take a tiny little break from budget this week to talk about some other stuff that's going on. Uh, but before we do that, I understand there's a concert announcement that you're quite excited about.

Stephanie:
Yes, I've been a little bit distracted today because I got the news that Miss Phoebe Bridgers is coming to Edmonton, which I was not expecting. She is totally the type of artist, like she's so big right now. I would never expect that she was coming to Edmonton. I actually went and saw her in Vancouver, uh, at the end of October, like a few weeks ago. And now she's coming here. So it's like, what the heck? I didn't even need to go. But the sad thing is, is I actually don't know if I'll be able to go to the concert because I have to be at the airport during the concert for a trip that I'm taking.

Mack:
Ah. OK. So probably not gonna work out.

Stephanie:
Yeah, which is so sad because I was like, I know so many people will be there, like all of my friends will be going there. So I'm really sad that I won't be able to have that. But you know, it's, either way, it's so nice to see that, like, a really big artist is coming to Edmonton. Maybe in the future more will come.

Mack:
Edmonton gets some pretty big shows, right? Uh, our facilities have been, I think, quite conducive to the big shows compared to places like Calgary. So if they're gonna stop somewhere other than Toronto and Vancouver, Edmonton's usually pretty high on the list. So that's exciting.

Stephanie:
Yeah. She already went to Toronto, Vancouver, and then she's going to Hamilton, Ontario, too. Isn't that strange? Let's go, Hamilton.

Mack:
Wow, OK. There you go. OK, uh, well, let's get into it for this week. We're gonna talk about district energy, we're gonna talk about transit, both, uh, some new name, a new name for an LRT station, but also the merch shop is up, which we're excited about. But before we do all that, we have an ad for you.

Stephanie:
This episode is brought to you by Winterval, a free, all-ages event taking place on Nov. 21 from 4 to 8 p.m. on 104 Street downtown. Downtown Winterval brings the community together no matter the temperature via a street party that includes DJs, street activations, great food, Santa photos, roving performers, and more. As an Edmonton Downtown Business Association one-day festival produced by Foundry Events, Winterval brings thousands of Edmontonians of all ages and backgrounds to the core of the city. There are great deals on food and drinks, along with giveaways from downtown businesses right on 104 Street for all to enjoy. Winterval is on Nov. 21 from 4 to 8 p.m. and has something for everyone to enjoy. Just be sure to dress for the weather. Learn more about Winterval at edmontondowntown.com/winterval. Edmonton Downtown is all one word.

Mack:
Winterval's such a fun event on our street and it looks like this year it's gonna be particularly warm for, for this event. It's kind of a pretty mild fall so far.

Stephanie:
Yeah, we love climate change. Well, I even— I, I, like, you know, I know in years past we've had issues with like ice carving shows. So hopefully there's no ice carving with this one.

Mack:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's too warm for some of the ice carvers to do their thing. Well, we're gonna talk about climate change with, with this first item because district energy, of course, is about climate. It's also about finances and other things. But I understand this was at council recently, Stephanie. So bring us up to speed. What's the deal with district energy? We've talked about this a little bit in the past, but it always seems to be one of those things that is never finished.

Stephanie:
Yes. And also I think that it's something that sounds extremely dull on the surface, but, um, I do think it's really important. It touches on climate goals, like you said, finances. And it's, and it's just, like, it's, it touches on the concept of the city having these really large aspirational, like you know, good for them for trying kind of projects. But then years later, it's like, OK, we still have to do this. OK, this is tough, right? So last week we talked about the city's climate slash carbon budget, and we mentioned that the city is trying to reduce the emissions that it can control directly. Well, one of the biggest chunks of emissions they have is their buildings. City-owned buildings and facilities produced 47 per cent of the corporation's emissions in 2024. So there's a big opportunity there for reductions, you know?

Mack:
So that would be like heat and water use and other things that uh happen in all of those buildings, which is surprising because the city operates quite a large number of vehicles as well. And you'd think those would produce quite a, quite a number of emissions, but almost half from buildings.

Stephanie:
Yeah, I always kind of forget that buildings are uh big emitters, right? So how does a district energy system work? What is it? So a district energy system produces thermal energy — that's heating, cooling and sometimes hot water — at a central plant and distributes it, distributes it to multiple buildings across a neighbourhood or through an area through a network of insulated underground pipes. So the U of A uses a district energy system. It's actually one of the largest in a university in North America, I, I read. Um, Blatchford kind of famously uses a renewable energy district, renewable district energy utility. And then currently there's a few buildings downtown connected to one, which is the subject of this report. The central plant for the downtown district energy system is located in the expansion of the Winspear Centre. That we've, again, we've talked about it a few times on the podcast before. And it currently provides heating services to the Winspear Centre and that expansion, Chancery Hall and Century Place.

Mack:
OK, so we've got the start of a system, at least. What are we talking in terms of emissions? Like, is it gonna have a big impact?

Stephanie:
We don't really know. Um, that's, this is just reading from the city's website. The exact reduction will depend on the technology that city council chooses to invest in over time. At full build-out, which is expected by 2050, the entire downtown system is designed to connect around 50 buildings and has the potential to operate emissions-free. So that is a lot of vagueness and not a lot of certainty of what it will actually do.

Mack:
Well, and quite a bit of ambition, like you were saying. Fifty buildings is a, is a lot at full build-out. I mean, that's a long way from now. It's 25 years from now, but uh that's bigger than I would have expected. So this was at infrastructure committee, I think, right? So why, why were they talking about this yet again?

Stephanie:
So back in May, council had asked administration to look at some options to sustain the utility moving forward. And administration returned with three options. The first is to continue with the status quo, not change anything, and complete Phase 1A, which is to expand to the Stanley A. Milner Library, Citadel Theatre and to city hall. The second option is to look for alternate ways to expand. So not doing those three city-owned buildings, with a minimal amount of city funding. And the third option is stopping the expansion and just kind of like keeping it where we are right now, not doing anything more, but not, not, like, cutting out district energy, but just staying where we are now. Now, that second option, it's a little vague about how it's laid out in the report, but from what I was listening to in the council meeting, it kind of sounds a lot like talking to private developers and business owners and asking them to connect to the system.

Mack:
So instead of more city facilities, let's go find some private partners who might benefit from this and want to participate. OK. What—

Stephanie:
Yes, exactly.

Mack:
What was the nature of the conversation then at committee?

Stephanie:
Well, there was a bit of back and forth on what committee should recommend to council. And just as kind of a reminder to our listeners, first things go to com— a lot of times, first things will go to committee and then they will talk about it, they'll hear from the public there, and then they'll make a recommendation to city council. On committees, there's only between four to six councillors that kind of get to make this, uh, recommendation. So Coun. Ashley Salvador introduced a motion recommending that city council direct administration to go with the first option. So to just stay the course, keep it exactly the same. And then Coun. Reed Clarke, he moved to amend the motion to go with the second option, which is to kind of partner with the, uh, private sector and to pause the expansion to those three other city-owned buildings. That amendment did not pass. So then, and then there was this long in-camera session. And then eventually Salvador moved another motion. It seemed to be a bit of a blend of the two. So it read, um, it called for Phase 1A to proceed, for the city to work with EPCOR to find options to expand the utility through partnerships, and then to proceed with a request for information for connections to Exhibition Lands, City Centre mall, River Crossing, Village at ICE District, and Station Lands developments. So, you know, continue on with those three city-owned buildings, also look for private partnerships and specifically look for partnerships with, you know, if we're just talking about right in downtown, City Centre mall, Village at ICE District, ICE District and Station Lands developments, then plus those other two city-run developments elsewhere in the city.

Mack:
Yeah, I'm kinda surprised to hear you say Exhibition Lands and River Crossing. Like those do not seem close to where this, this, uh, system is located downtown at all. So I guess it's all just a series of pipes and tubes and they can make it happen, but how does that work?

Stephanie:
So with River Crossing and Exhibition Lands, they'd actually be starting kind of a whole new separate, uh, district energy system, separate from the downtown one and separate from Blatchford too, right? Even though they're all like relatively close to each other, they would be separate. So they'd have their own energy centre, they'd have their own kind of like load, they'd have their own probably their own like utility rates and stuff. With River Crossing, administration has just flat out said no. And part of the reason is because River Crossing development is moving too fast, which I thought was interesting because we've talked about River Crossing, listeners. It's that development down, like, just north of the RE/MAX Field, Riverhawks field, where we, we talked at length about it with Miranda Jimmy and Kisha Supernant about like Indigenous, uh, consultation on that. So apparently development is moving really fast. They're so fast that they can't even put a district energy system in. And then as for Exhibition Lands, they're kind of pulling it back a little bit. The city said that district energy is feasible for high-density transit villages and major anchor loads like the EXPO Centre and Kathleen Andrews Garage.

Mack:
OK, interesting. Well, I have to say the motion that you described feels a little bit like let's just stuff everything together. Let's do the current system, let's expand to the three city buildings, let's tell EPCOR to go find partners, let's build new energy systems elsewhere in the city. Like, what, how did we end up in with a motion that is like go do everything? It just seems bizarre.

Stephanie:
Yeah, and I feel like, um, I think that the councillors, at least some of them would agree with you because eventually the decision or the this whole thing was just requisitioned to the next city council meeting without a recommendation at all. So, again, listeners, like if that happens, it kind of means it can mean a couple things. I'm not gonna put any motivations into people's mouths, but it can either mean we literally just don't have time to talk about this. Let's just get to it another time. Sometimes though people still, like, councillors requisition things because they think, no, this is too big of a deal to just have committee input. Let's move it so that all of council can have a, can have a say. Like, for example, Anne Stevenson, Coun. Anne Stevenson for Ward O-day’min, she was not on infrastructure committee, so she couldn't be part of that, right? So yeah, eventually nothing happened.

Mack:
Interesting. OK.

Stephanie:
Yeah. So Mack, what are your thoughts on all of this? The downtown district energy system maybe not being financially sustainable. What are your thoughts?

Mack:
Well, I just don't understand why we would do anything more than connect to those other three city buildings downtown. You know, the Milner Library makes a ton of sense. City hall, for example. We already have the system started. We already have the thing there. Why don't we continue to build on that? But in a, in a more focused way. And so, you know, I'm not sure it makes a ton of sense to go out and find new partners for this project, but I think it makes sense, yes, to continue to build it out to the other nearby city facilities and, and try and get some of the benefits from that. I feel like it's probably also one of those things that the, the more we do it, the more we'll learn about how effective it is and what kinds of connections make the most sense and you know what the opportunities might look like. So it's only at three buildings now, right? So it's gonna get to another three. That seems like a doubling. It's a pretty good opportunity to, to learn some things about it. So, uh, I, I'm, yeah, I'm surprised that committee would have tried to go so big here, and then obviously it just ends up at council anyway, where I expect it'll get scaled back a little bit, whatever the final motion is. But in terms of climate change, like there's not many things the city can do, really, in the grand scheme of things, to directly affect emissions. This feels like an item that they can do directly to, you know, they can buy electric vehicles, they can, you know, be more sustainable in water usage and all you know, all those kinds of things. But if buildings produce as much emissions as you were talking about earlier, this feels like a very tangible, concrete thing that they can do, that they can tackle to try to have a positive impact on those emissions. So, uh, I would be surprised if council doesn't continue on in some way or fashion with this, but I don't think having it go to all these other parts of the city is also necessarily what we should be doing. What do you think, Stephanie?

Stephanie:
I have a lot of thoughts. So one thing is that there was lots of talk about this being a big generational investment in infrastructure, and that council shouldn't be looking at things really in terms of that four-year budget cycle. You know, look more at that 50-year outlook. Those were, that was from the public speakers that came to talk about this, which I do want to get to in more depth later. But it, you know, to me, the whole concept of a district energy system as a climate thing, it feels very like mid-2010s. It feels very millennial optimism. And like as a, as a Gen Z that has kind of grown up in a more austere environment, it's very, I'm very taken aback by, taken aback in, like, a good way almost. Like I'm pleasantly surprised at people actually believing in systemic change. And like, I could, I don't think that if this sort of thing was proposed today in 2026, I don't think that it would be supported at all because like completely changing the heating systems for a bunch of huge buildings right in the centre of the city seems like a, a thing that would not get support today. Um, just because we're in such, uh, an austere, you know, uh, environment. And I think about another thing, I think it was Coun. Aaron Paquette that said this, um, talking about the Blatchford, not necessarily about the energy utility, but about basically how all of the homes in Blatchford are also meant in other ways to be really green, essentially. And, of course, all of Blatchford's, like, standards and stuff were kind of set back in, I don't know what, 2009, 2010, 2011, somewhere around there. And he was kind of saying that today, the most basic new home that is made is just naturally even more green than the Blatchford standards that are quite rigid. So what I'm kind of trying to say there is that I feel like the, the, the, the green eco standards of 2026 are so different than what was approved in this, uh, district energy strategy. And I'm just so surprised to see something so systemic being proposed or, or the continuation of something so systemic. So to bring it back to city administration and the budget and everything, I'm not gonna put any motivation on city administration, but they do mention in the report that the options that would forego the expansion to those three other city-owned buildings would eliminate the need for about $17.8 million in tax-supported debt plus $4 million for building modifications. Now that makes me think of how we talked about last week in the climate/slash carbon budget, they're moving away a bit in the proposed budget from reducing emissions. They're more talking about, let's fix the roads so they don't get washed away. Let's fix the bridges. Let's fix, put, plant trees in parks so that people can go sit under them when it's 35 degrees out. I'm wondering if administration is kind of saying, guys, like this big systemic change, this $18 million or so would be better spent on something that's a little bit less ambitious. I don't know. But that's just my thoughts. That this is such an ambitious, massive project. And it just seems in this day and age a little, I don't know, out of character, strange. I don't know.

Mack:
Well, the other thought I had about this was, isn't this, uh, potentially reducing our future tax, you know, uh, load, right? So if, if these can be, uh, renewable energy sources and all of these buildings are now hooked up to this central district energy system and we can improve the, you know, return on investment there, you know, doesn't that potentially reduce our future tax bills? You know, because things are, are operating more efficiently, maybe not even having to you know, purchase fuel and things like that in order to, uh, run these buildings. Like I think that's a longer-term vision, obviously. And you need to have some of those longer-term bets, I think, in a budget. Not just the things we're gonna do to fix the roads this time. You need to have some things you're thinking about for the future. And maybe this is a good example of one of those.

Stephanie:
Yeah, totally. I mean, so back in the beginning of this year, I wrote a story about how the Blatchford district energy, renewable energy was also facing an issue. And it had to do with, I won't get into it, but basically federal, the federal carbon tax removal kind of threw a wrench into the financial sustainability of that utility. And the downtown district energy is also facing that same issue. But at the time I was talking to some folks from the city, and they're like, uh, we're, we're facing a bit of an issue right now. But you know, these utilities are 50-year games. They're not four-year things. You have to think—

Mack:
Yeah. Right.

Stephanie:
About them in the long term. Um, if you look at them, it's like, when, if you're, like, uh, doing your big gym progress and you're like seeing the scale go up and down every day. No, you gotta, you gotta watch it on a, only do weigh-ins once a week so you don't get obsessive, right? Um, but yeah, it's a bit of more of a long-term thing. And that's, that's what we heard from the public speakers.

Mack:
So what did we hear from public speakers? And I think we also heard about some similar systems elsewhere, right?

Stephanie:
You know, it was very strange. Um, a bunch of people from Vancouver went, visited virtually. Isn't that— I'm like, how did they, how did they hear about this? But anyway, so several representatives from Vancouver-area private and public district energy sector, like, companies and stuff, paid visits. So there's a guy from Lonsdale Energy, which is a municipally owned community energy system in the city of North Vancouver. He said, among other things, that council support is really important, not just financial, but in, uh, other requirements, such as requiring buildings to hook up to the utility, not giving them a choice. Then there was Creative Energy. I love that company name. That's a private utility that serves more than 200 buildings in downtown Vancouver. Uh, they echoed that a strong municipal development and environmental policy is essential for viable business cases to make, make the financials work. Uh, Jason Owen of Corix Development, um, said that partnering with the private sector can help secure equity and scale the system up. And then Sonja Wilson, who's a partner with Reshape Infrastructure Strategies, she said to go with the first option, which is to just stay the course, keep it, keep it the same, because it's one of a few options that municipalities have to directly reduce emissions, as we were kind of saying. But they all agreed that they should stay the course and keep the long-term goals in mind because it takes time for the benefits to come. You won't be seeing this overnight.

Mack:
Yeah, this is a big, long-term project for sure, but it is this council who's gonna make the next decision here, at least about what happens in the next four years. So you said this is, they didn't make a recommendation at committee, so when is this going to council? When can we expect to hear more about this project?

Stephanie:
So it's scheduled for the Nov. 25 council meeting, um, right smack in the middle of the beginning of council's budget deliberations. So should be a fun week. But, yeah, I think, I just think it's these humongous projects are so interesting to me. It's like how passionate I get over bridges and how bridges are like 100-year investments.

Mack:
No doubt. Yep. Well, it's gonna hopefully be around for more than 100 years, assuming it doesn't fall into the river.

Stephanie:
Oh, gosh.

Mack:
OK, thank you, Stephanie. Before we get to our next couple of items here all about transit, we have one more ad for you.

Stephanie:
This episode is brought to you by Affordability Futures, an initiative powered by EndPovertyEdmonton. The living wage in Edmonton is $22.65 an hour. So if you make minimum wage, there's a huge gap between what you get and what you need. What can our city do about it? Bring your ideas to The Future We Can Afford, an event on Nov. 19. Join community members, employers, and decision makers in a conversation about closing the gap. Registration is free. Visit endpovertyedmonton.ca to RSVP. That's endpovertyedmonton.ca.

Mack:
OK, next up we have news about a new name for one of our LRT stations.

Stephanie:
Yeah, so Edmonton's naming committee has proposed renaming, uh, Government Centre LRT station to drum roll, please, Buffalo Crossing LRT station. Um, the, what, so many, many people are wondering, what, why, why is this happening? What's going on? Well, people have a short memory. Um, the change was started in motion more than five years ago, shortly after the possible remains of 215 children were discovered at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School, which brought more mainstream awareness to the harms that the residential school system inflicted upon Indigenous Peoples. Of course, this was very well known to many people, especially the Indigenous community, but you know, that's when it really became more of a collective thing that many Canadians recognized.

Mack:
Yeah, I remember that. I think definitely it was like you say, an awareness building event uh here in Edmonton. There's been subsequent things here in Edmonton as well, like the renaming of Oliver to Wîhkwêntôwin and others. Uh so one of the implications for Edmonton is that that Grandin/Government Centre had the name Grandin in it and we removed that. So what was that about?

Stephanie:
Yeah, so I actually, so it was changed to just Government Centre LRT station temporarily. I always just thought, we're just taking out Grandin. I didn't realize that there was a whole change in the works. Um, but of course, Grandin references Vital Grandin, who was the first Roman Catholic bishop of St. Albert and an architect of the residential school system. And, of course, this is why, yeah, Edmonton's neighbourhood of Grandin has been renamed and also St. Albert's neighbourhood of Grandin was renamed to the Gardens, which is awesome how it like barely like it's like still such a nice, you know, like it's a similar sounding one. Um so council at the time directed administration to remove reference to Grandin and ask the naming committee to collaborate with a group to come up with a new name for the station that contributes to reconciliation.

Mack:
And so they've done that with the Buffalo Crossing name. Uh a little surprising that it took as long as it did, I suppose, to get to this recommendation. Uh, why Buffalo Crossing? Like what is the, what does the name mean or why is that the name they're recommending?

Stephanie:
I love this. I love the name. Um, so it references the area approximately where the train crosses the river, which, I guess, historically is naturally more shallow. And when the river was low, it would allow millions of buffalo to migrate and cross as a collective, which I think is so flipping cool and it's so interesting how now it is also a spot where like millions cross as a collective on transit. Sorry to get a little like woo-woo, but I do think it's really cool.

Mack:
Yeah, I like the name. I think Buffalo Crossing is a, is a good choice, and I expect council will go ahead and approve this. I will say, I don't love transit names that are not about the place. Like Buffalo—

Stephanie:
Ha ha ha ha.

Mack:
Crossing does not help me understand where to go if I'm new to the transit system. Like it doesn't, it's not connected to anything around there. Government Centre was a little more clear in that regard, right? It's like, this is where the government is, this is where the provincial government is, this is where the legislature is. Most of our other LRT station names are also connected to things around there. Stadium, Coliseum, et cetera—

Stephanie:
University, yeah.

Mack:
Right? University. Like, they're, they're named after the thing that is there so that it helps you navigate the system. Having said all that, I understand the significance of the reconciliation efforts here. And I, I think our system is big enough that we can have a mix. We can have some of those place-based names as well as some of these more interesting storytelling-based names. And I think when they encourage people to learn a little bit more about the history of the place, I think that's also a win. And so I think that's what will happen here with this Buffalo Crossing.

Stephanie:
Yeah, I think it's really cool. The comments online were what you would expect. Because so this isn't going to council or to committee until next week, urban planning committee, but it's a pretty notable thing. So when the agendas got posted, news articles were written. And of course, people only read the headline and they didn't look into it to see why on earth the city would be doing this. So a lot of people, some people were thinking that it was referencing like that one Buffalo slot machine. Like it's like a famous thing in, in, yeah.

Mack:
Buffalo slot machine?

Stephanie:
There's, like, a, there's, like, a really famous, it's on, it's on in all the flipping ads that they have now in Alberta, like Buffalo slot machines that you can play. They thought that it was referencing that because there's Play Alberta Field at Commonwealth. And then other people were like, well, why would they spend so much money? Like, did the, did the government centre move? Did the legislature move? Um, no, it's because it's for reconciliation. And I don't know, I think it's a small price to pay for, uh, a former station that used to honour someone who was an architect of the genocidal residential school system.

Mack:
Do we know how much the naming will cost to bring, you know, new signs—

Stephanie:
So—

Mack:
And update the maps and all the rest of it?

Stephanie:
So the total costs of the renaming project are, is $350,000. That's funded through the Truth and Reconciliation Commission service package. So that money supports the Indigenous-guided naming process and related implementation, which, uh, includes station signage, new public art, um storytelling around the project. So I imagine there's gonna be some like interpretation stuff involved. Yeah, so $350,000.

Mack:
So really not that much, actually. Like it's shockingly little compared to how much the city spends on some other projects.

Stephanie:
Especially for over five years of a project. Yeah.

Mack:
Yeah, yeah. OK, so this will go to committee soon and we'll learn whether or not this is the new official name. Do we know when it would take effect?

Stephanie:
So administration is recommending that renaming takes effect immediately with work being completed throughout 2027. This will give them time to update the network maps, the LRT station signage, audio announcements, um, and you know, also around to other maps and other municipalities regionally, and allowing time to socialize the new name among riders, residents, and local businesses.

Mack:
OK, so it takes effect immediately, but it'll be a rollout over the next year to see the updated things, including, I suppose, we're gonna have to redo the new merch that's available at the ETS merch shop. I had not seen that this is—

Stephanie:
Great segue.

Mack:
Up yet, thank you very much. But you, you noticed that the shop is up, and one of the things they have on there is an LRT system map mug. And there's kind of two pictures of it, and we can't quite see the name of the station. We imagine it's, it's just Government Centre. Uh, and this is gonna have to get updated.

Stephanie:
Yeah, so I got lots to say about the merch. Um, yeah, first of all, that mug. I mean, the thing is, is that until council approves it, that is still the name. This was approved in the last budget, was it not? So, the merch shop. So I, I'm assuming that they were like, OK, we need—

Mack:
The merch shop? Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie:
To get this out before this budget. It's been four entire years that Stephanie Swensrude has been waiting, so we need to get this out. Mm-hmm.

Mack:
Make it happen. Yeah. Well, they've launched it. There is, what is there, six, uh, eight products in there so far, nine products, something like that. There's a couple of sweaters, a couple of hats, toques, some T-shirts. So I think I have opinions about the items they have. I'm sure you do as well. The, we were talking before the show, the most exciting option they have, in my opinion, is this holiday sweater. That is available for pre-order. It says it ships on Nov. 25. So that is like among the most interesting looking things they've got in the merch shop, I think.

Stephanie:
Yeah, I really like the retro logo cap because I really like the colour brown. I don't know if that's an actual a real retro logo. I, I've never seen it before.

Mack:
Yeah, yeah. That was the, that was the old, old, old bus logos. Yep. So that's a real thing.

Stephanie:
Hey, I like it.

Mack:
Yep.

Stephanie:
OK, and then I also, they, they, they took, they took the two most popular bus routes, Route 4 and Route 8, and made shirts with all of like the major stops along them, which I love. They are giving the people what they want. They have this Arc card shirt, which um, Taproot reporter and my colleague Colin Gallant said, Do you think you can tap the card by, like, chest-bumping the, the Arc machine?

Mack:
It's a little, uh, little code on there, so maybe, who knows?

Stephanie:
Yeah, maybe. Yeah. And you know, OK, I, I, I see the vision— I see the vision. I don't, I don't know if I'll be buying any of it. I was chatting with, uh, a pal, Jack Farrell, friend of the show. And he said that they needed someone with like a meme background to come in and and create the merch because right now it's very City of Edmonton core. Like this is like the City of Edmonton font. You know, but I think that if they had had like a really unhinged and funny merch, like, I would probably buy it. But at this point, it's, it's a little bit more advertising. And the thing is, is I don't think the purpose of this store is to have people advertise for you by wearing merch, it's to make money and you'd sell more things if you had like crazy, unhinged things. I don't know. That's just my that's just my take.

Mack:
Like get Troy to design some things. He's had a, got a little bit of a history of this anyway, right?

Stephanie:
Yeah. Exactly. Or, or there's been like artistic renditions before like, those shirts that launched that were in the uh old TIX on the Square, like Edmonton Arts Council Shop and Services. Those were super cute.

Mack:
Yeah, yeah. Well, like you say, maybe it's possible for those things to happen because now there's a store, it's real, they've presumably figured out some of the back end stuff to make this happen. Maybe it's possible they could add new items to the store on a semi-regular basis. Maybe they can draw upon some creativity from, from other folks. I think they got, you're right, they got a little close with the Route 4, Route 8 shirts to capitalizing on you know, public interest in the transit system and I could see people buying those. But on the other hand, $60 for a T-shirt.

Stephanie:
Dude, I know.

Mack:
Right? I mean 75 bucks for a hoodie, 45 bucks for a cap. I am not the best judge of how expensive this stuff is because I'm constantly amazed at how many people walk around with brand new Edmonton Oilers jerseys and, you know, all that kind of merchandise. And I know that's several hundred dollars. So maybe 60 bucks for a T-shirt is nothing if you're into the transit system. But I guess they're gonna make some money on it if people buy them. 'Cause I can't imagine it costs anywhere close to that to produce.

Stephanie:
No.

Mack:
So I don't know, Stephanie, I don't know if I'll be buying anything. What about you? You think you're gonna buy something from the store?

Stephanie:
You know, I don't know if I will, but I'm pretty sure my mom, who listens to the podcast, will soon ask me what I want for Christmas. And I think that— that brown hat, Joanne, that brown hat, it's very cute.

Mack:
Making the shopping easy for mom. I love it.

Stephanie:
Yeah, yeah. Cut out the middleman. She can just listen to the podcast. I don't even have to tell her.

Mack:
Excellent. Uh, OK, well, if you're listening to this and you love the stuff in the merch shop, let us know if you've got other ideas for stuff that should be in there. Let us know that too. We'd love to share some of those ideas and maybe encourage ETS to adopt some of them for uh, future items in the store. Uh, council was off this week, right, Stephanie, because of Remembrance Day, but they'll be back at it next week. And we are rapidly getting to the end of November here. It's shocking, we're already halfway through, and that will mean budget.

Stephanie:
Yes.

Mack:
Looking forward to that. OK. Uh, we'll be back next week with more Speaking Municipally. Until then, I'm Mack.

Stephanie:
I'm Stephanie.

Mack:
And we're...

Both:
Speaking Municipally.