Speaking Municipally

Mack:
Ending the year on a tight vote. This week, we spoke to Mayor Andrew Knack about our growing city and our shrinking regional economic development organization.

Stephanie:
Plus, council held a public hearing and reviewed proposed changes to provincial electoral boundaries.

Mack:
Hi, I'm Mack.

Stephanie:
I'm Stephanie.

Mack:
And we're...

Both:
Speaking Municipally.

Mack:
Welcome back to Speaking Municipally, episode 337. It's the last one of 2025.

Stephanie:
Yay.

Mack:
Hard to believe we're already here. Are you ready for the holidays, Stephanie? Ready for Christmas?

Stephanie:
Oh, am I ever. I'm so ... I love, I love Taproot, I love my job. I cannot wait to not open my laptop for, like, a week, and just lay around and do absolutely nothing and not think about council rezonings.

Mack:
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:
And, dear listener, you might not also know this, but I also write all of the roundups for Taproot, so that means every day I am immersed in a new topic, so that's tech, health innovation, business, which normally I really love.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
But then sometimes I'm like, "I've had enough of thinking about hydrogen or I've u- I've had enough of thinking about, like, prosthetic limbs." I'm ready to r- read no news for two weeks. I'm so excited. (laughs)

Mack:
I think taking a news break is a healthy habit for everybody. And I say this as someone who runs a news organization.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
A little bit of a break can, can be a, a positive thing for anybody, whether you work in the news or not, whether you're just a consumer of news. Yeah.

Stephanie:
Yeah. And we ju- ... If ... Listener, if you're a reader of the Pulse, we will be taking a two-week publishing break, so that's why we ... You won't be getting any news. And I recommend you take a break from news if you can.

Mack:
That's right. I mean, people are busy at Christmas with family-

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
... and other stuff anyway, so it's a good time for us to do that, recharge a little bit.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
I look forward to it every year. It's a practice that we adopted because other media companies in the independent journalism space, you know, started doing this and we were really inspired and thought, "That sounds like a really sensible thing to do." We don't need to run this the way that newsrooms of old were run, and so it's been a, a practice that we've done at Taproot for several years now. I think it's really positive overall.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
All right. Well, before we get onto our publishing break, we do have an episode today and a bunch of other things to talk about, stuff you've been up to this week, Stephanie.

Stephanie:
Mm-hmm.

Mack:
You've been a very busy bee.

Stephanie:
(laughs)

Mack:
Uh, one of the things you did is you went and interviewed our mayor, Andrew Knack. Uh, usually what happens is we get close to December and the mayor invites the media to come and do a year-end interview. You know, they're asking questions like, "How's it been going? What are you looking forward to?" And ostensibly, this is because all of those publications have space to fill over the holidays because they don't take a publishing break like we do, and there's not as much news happening because everybody's at home with their families opening presents and cooking turkeys and stuff like that. And so they, you know, do these year-end interviews to fill it up a little bit. And w- we don't have to do that. We can ask actual questions of our mayor, and that's what you did, Stephanie. So tell us about your interview with Mayor Knack.

Stephanie:
Yeah. It was, uh ... It was a good one. We met on Zoom, and because he doesn't have to be on television or anything, I told him that and he immediately was like, "Oh, good," and took off his blazer and was (laughs) more relaxed. But anyways, I asked him a couple questions here. We'll get into them right now. So the first thing I asked him about was regional collaboration. So Taproot's Colin Gallant has been doing some excellent reporting on Edmonton Global, which ... It doesn't get very much attention except for from us at Taproot.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
But it's very important. So as a reminder, any listeners that don't know, Edmonton Global is the regional economic development agency that works to attract foreign investment to the region. Uh, in late 2023, Fort Saskatchewan, South Kona County, Sturgeon County, Devon, and Parkland County voted to exit it, and those votes then started a two-year clock, and now each of those five municipalities has finalized its decision to leave.

Mack:
Just a reminder, all the municipalities in the Edmonton region are the shareholders of Edmonton Global. They're the organizations that all came together and said, "We're gonna be the creators, the, the shepherds of this organization." So they're the sharehold- shareholders, and there's an agreement with all the shareholders. They have to make some contributions and that kind of thing. And this two-year clock that you talked about is, you know, part of those articles. If a shareholder wants to leave, they can't do it immediately. They have to essentially give two years' notice, and then eventually, at the end of the two years, vote to follow through on that.

Stephanie:
Uh, another more recent departure or planned departure was Leduc County, and they voted in December 2024. So this all means Edmonton Global could see its membership dwindle to just eight municipalities by this time next year. So that would incl- ... The remaining ones would be Edmonton, Beaumont, Gibbons, the City of Leduc, Morinville, St. Albert, Spruce Grove, and Stony Plain. And Leduc County is a, is a tough one because Leduc County has Nisku-

Mack:
Right.

Stephanie:
... which, like ... A- I've done a bunch of stories on how Nisku's, like, a very important industrial hub.

Mack:
I mean, Fort Saskatchewan too, right? With the, with the Heartland and all the oil developments and things like that. I mean, around this city, there are several of these really vibrant industrial centers. And, ah, I've talked about it so many times on this show. Like, those things work better because the City of Edmonton is here, right? All of the amenities that the city provides make it viable for people to come and work in those industrial centers. And those industrial centers, you know, vice versa, have a positive impact on the city. So to me, I see them as very, you know, complementary and part of a cohesive region, which is what we should be. So you asked the mayor about this. What did you ask him?

Stephanie:
Well, he said that he doesn't think that regional collaboration will go away. It's just going to look different.

Andrew Knack:
Well, I think it means we have to, to rethink how we're going to do that because it's critical that we're working together and it just has to look differently than if, if we ... If folks feel, if other municipalities feel, for whatever reason, that Edmonton Global is not the right place for that, what is the right place for that? Because we cannot forget that it was just about 10 years ago-... that we had a report called Be Ready or Be Left Behind. It clearly showed that if we were not working together as a region, we miss out on massive economic opportunities. The good news is, in all of my one-on-one conversations with the regional mayors is, I very much got a sense that they are invested in this. So, I think they're looking for a different way to do it, not whether they want to do it. And so, I think this is a combination of where, you know, it's a bit of an all hands on deck, so we need to work with global, the local chambers of commerce. We need to work with each municipality and say, "How are we going to structure something that ensures we can grow our economic pie? How do we make sure that we're not falling into what happened more than a decade ago, where each county and each municipality was busy fighting for the scraps? Meanwhile, there's this whole other world that exists here that's just passing us by because we were so focused on, on this little, little piece here that we missed out on this giant opportunity here." So, that is something I plan to lean into. Uh, my we had our regional gathering on December 4th where we got a chance to connect with each other. That was really a bit more of a get-to-know-each-other because they're new mayors and, and new representatives. And the next meeting though is one where we get to, where we need to start doing the work because this world, you know, if, if we think 10 years ago when that report came out, it was necessary to work together then, it's even more critical to be working together now, or else we are all gonna be failing and not doing what needs to be done. I, I think there is an appetite. I'm ready to work with everyone on that and I'm eager to get moving on this. It's, it's so important to me, the economic development file is so important to me, but that is something we're going to prioritize in the mayor's office here, having folks that are dedicated to that work day in and day out, because without that level of focus, we're not going to be able to be as successful as we wanna be.

Stephanie:
So, I clarified what he meant about that dedicated position, and then he said, "Oh, it might be one staffer specifically for that purpose or just, like, everyone in the office is focusing on it," and I thought that was interesting. I wasn't sure if that really had been done before. And then, so, about those fees that all of these municipalities pay. Mac, I know that you have an opinion about these fees.

Mack:
I do, and I don't know if it's a popular opinion. But I think we should just really simplify this and essentially Edmonton should pay the fees. You know, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars for most of the municipalities. There's a few where maybe we should work out some kind of an arrangement. St. Albert, you know, Str- Strathcona County, like, they would have larger budgets, maybe we can do some cost-sharing there. But for all the little ones where it's literally a rounding error in the context of Edmonton's budget, maybe we should just pay it. Like, if that's what it takes to, to make that regional collaboration work and to bring those folks to the table and keep them at the table, I think the benefit to Edmonton in the long run far outweighs the $10,000 or whatever we would be spending to cover their membership fees, their shareholder fees, right? Now, I totally understand this idea of like, you gotta have skin in the game and all that kind of stuff, but the only reason that this all got off the ground in the first place is because the mayor at the time, Don Iverson, recognized the significance of not throwing the weight of the big city around and really trying to be a partner with all those little municipalities that surround it, and I think that's what's needed here again. And a- and again, I think it's like, keep your eye on the bigger prize here, like, the longer term benefit to Edmonton, are we really gonna put that in jeopardy over a few tens of thousands of dollars of shareholder fees? Like, I'm not sure if that's a smart idea.

Stephanie:
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that's a popular opinion. I know that-

Mack:
It's probably not, right?

Stephanie:
(laughs) Yeah, and I know c- certain councilors that would strongly disagree with g- giving money to regional partners, but I digress. (laughs)

Mack:
Yeah, you know, I... But th- then there, there, there's the clarification. Are we giving money to the regional partners or are we investing in this thing that makes Edmonton better off because the region as a whole is more successful, right? If we've decided that Edmonton Global is going to be the place for economic development and foreign direct investment and a trade and, and attracting all of those things, and that's where Edmonton's investment in that is primarily gonna go, then I, I see it as just a continuation of that decision that we've already made, right, to make that happen. Yes, I know there are councilors who are annoyed at the fact that, you know, people in the surrounding municipalities use Edmonton infrastructure without paying for it and sure, we can have all of those arguments and, and all of that, but the growing the pie piece I think most councilors do agree is important. Like, we can't just divvy up what we've already got; we've gotta figure out how to grow the pie overall, and if Edmonton Global is really key to that, then Edmonton, I think, needs to, in a different way, you know, throw its big city weight around to make sure that that happens and can be a success.

Stephanie:
All right. So then the next thing that I asked him about was the city plan and the growth milestones that are associated with it. Now, we talked about this within the last few weeks about the city plan and how you know, it was built around this one population growth trajectory that we've surpassed and we're expected to reach 1.25 million people in 2032, now we're expected to reach that in 2027, five years earlier. And as of this year, the region is already at 1.6 million so we're growing much faster than expected.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
Now, that growth rate is slowing down a little bit, but still, um-

Mack:
In the grand scheme of things, it's still pretty rapid, way faster than most other municipalities in Canada.

Stephanie:
So, Knack has said that the plan was always meant to be flexible, and that's why we have milestones based on population rather than on, like, a specific year. So, I asked whether we have the capacity now to adjust to these rapidly approaching milestones.

Andrew Knack:
Well, and, and I think that's why we need to reevaluate to help inform the next four-year budget. We're gonna be, we're gonna have a tight four-year, year budget. The next you know, on transit specifically, we're essentially maxed out on spaces. We bought the last 25 buses a- and in this last budget, we approved the, the expense for that. Uh, there's not a lot of new bus growth. So, if we're going to scale up transit service between now and the next garage opening up, really, our, our main lever will be, are we investing in traffic signal infrastructure? Are we looking at a lane configurations in certain places? You know, I I, I this day, I took in the bus taken the number four from my home to the university. We have a dedicated bus lane along Fox Drive, getting into south campus, but it's still technically shares traffic with Whitemud. You know, should we be looking at the buses being allowed to use Whitemud, the shoulder of Whitemud as a dedicated BRT lane? You know, what are those types of actions we can take citywide that can help improve transit service, recognizing we can't really add more buses still for another four, you know, four or five years at this point? Uh, now, th- then the other question is, as that other garage sort of becomes available, do we already have to start the work planning for the next garage beyond that? Because, you know, how quickly will that one fill up based off how fast our population is growing? So, yes, we need to have these conversations to inform our four-year budget, and, and if we're going to lean into this, which we need to what are those smaller scale investments that can actually have a pretty substantial impact on the efficiency of our, of our transit system?

Stephanie:
So, he used transit as the example there, and he didn't really give the impression that, you know, we have loads of cash sitting around t- that we can, you know, accelerate these milestones that we're reaching. So, what, what are your thoughts on that, Mack?

Mack:
Well, we don't. We know that there's financial challenges and the city needs to work at that, and council is gonna have a big opportunity in 2026 to do some stuff about that when they start talking about the next four-year budget. And there's a whole bunch of other transit-related things coming up. But you know what? He talked there about already having to plan for the next garage, you know, the capacity problem. I think that's emblematic of the ongoing challenge that the city faces as a result of this rapid, rapid growth, is that you can't just stand still. It's not like you can get to, "Okay, if, if we just build that, we'll be good." Like, you've gotta be proactive in working at the next thing. And I think that's a real challenge, because that, you know consistent growth, you've gotta try to... You wanna be a little bit ahead of the game, right? You wanna be proactive about that. 'Cause we know it costs more if you're trying to catch up after the fact. The problem is that to be proactive costs money, and to make the case for, "Well, if we spend some of this now, it'll save us more down the line," is a really difficult case for councilors to make, right, to the public. Uh, so it's a real difficult situation that, that we're in and that we have to deal with. And so, hopefully under Mayor Knack's leadership, this council can come up with some creative ways to do that and to, to really help tell the story about this. Like, I think more than anything, we need to better tell the story about growth and the impacts of that in order to, to make some of these hard decisions.

Stephanie:
Yeah, and I think that this is such a good example of municipal politics and how, like, the municipal budget moves like this big ship. I use this analogy a lot, but it's this big shift and if you wanna turn, like, you turn slightly and it takes, like, forever to turn. There's this inertia to it. And y- if, if you're someone living in a new neighborhood, like Ambleside all the way in the southwest, and you are like, "I want transit service," well, not only do we need to buy new buses. We can't, we can't buy those buses until we have a transit garage. We can't have a transit garage until it is built, and that takes years and years to build. Then we have to fund the transit garage. Then we also need the transit operators. We need the logistics. There's just, like, so many things that go into such a s- a relatively simple sounding request, right? "Just send a bus down the road." Well it does not work like that whatsoever.

Mack:
Yeah. None of the civic infrastructure that we rely on daily does, right? Even, even the roads and the clearing-

Stephanie:
Mm-hmm.

Mack:
... and all the rest of it w- that people complain about regularly, those, those things are part of a pretty complicated (laughs) system that has lots of moving intricate parts.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Another example of that is a certain civic affairs podcast host once said on a certain civic affairs podcast that if the city is clearing a bike lane, it should just clear the sidewalk beside it, and I remember thinking while listening to that civic affairs podcast, I was thinking, "Pfft, but that would double-" the amount of time and, and manpower needed to clear snow, and that's complicated. So, anyways, I know that th- that certain civic affairs podcast is not listening, so hopefully I do not get that in my DMs (laughs).

Mack:
All right. What else did you ask the mayor about?

Stephanie:
Okay. And I noti-... So, if you follow Andrew Knack on LinkedIn, which I do, he is everywhere. Every single day, he's at a different spot. He's at Applied Pharmaceutical Innovation, he's at Edmonton Global, he's at the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce. Most recently, or not most recently, and another thing he did is he had his first official meeting with Premier Danielle Smith within the last few weeks. So, he's met with her before, both when she worked as a radio host and since she's been premier. Uh, in his role i- with Alberta Municipalities, he's met with her. But this was his first official meeting as Edmonton's mayor, and I just asked him how it went.

Andrew Knack:
Our chat was really good. It gave us a chance. We started, really, her first question to me was, "You know, what, what are the city of Edmonton priorities?" And so I was able to talk about our budget priorities our budget submission priorities things we wanna focus on. I know they're, they're also dealing with tough financial times and trying to figure out how our asks can really help...... uh, fulfill the needs that we have, so in terms of building a safer city, a more affordable city, a city that's keeping up with growth. Uh, that's really our, our emphasis, and I, I will say I was encouraged by how receptive she was to, to some of our specific asks. And I think what we, what we need to see going forward is that regular and ongoing relationship where we're talking about what, what we're working on, where I can better understand what they're working on and w- and where some of their, their goals align with the work that we're doing, or where at least we can support them on that. So, you know, it was a half-hour long, so it wasn't a, a super long first meeting, but but a productive one. And I will say in particular on, on the housing file and the housing and homelessness file, mental health and addictions file, I, I was really left that conversation as I had with a number of the ministers, far more encouraged than I've been in many, many years. And, and I think it's important to highlight that because I have obviously been very outspoken on this when I was a councilor, and I wasn't necessarily feeling like we were, we were being heard by the provincial government. When I met with Minister Wilson, Minister Nixon Premier Smith, all of them were, were talking about the same things, about the need for that post-recovery housing, so I know they're focusing very heavily on, on recovery and, and that's important, but it is equally important to make sure that when somebody has gone through that recovery process, that they have somewhere else to move to, right? Uh, so once they finish their program, whether that be six months or a year, they need somewhere else to move to and, and will still likely need ongoing support. So to hear about that desire to get a lot more post-recovery housing built was, was truly encouraging for me and to the point where, you know, my conversation with Minister Nixon, he talked about how he wants to work with me to make sure advocating to the federal government so that as they're continuing putting more housing dollars that their housing funding isn't only going into market housing, but it's also going into that non-market housing. So I'm, I'm cautiously optimistic that w- we've got a really good opportunity in front of us here. It feels like particularly on housing and homelessness, mental health and addictions, this might be the first time in 12 years where I think the federal government, provincial government, and the municipal government are all aligned and ready to get to work and, and ready to see some immediate action because we need immediate action.

Stephanie:
So he was talking and saying, you know, "It was encouraging," and I thought, doesn't every politician say that sort of thing when they talk about meeting with other levels of government? Like, I don't think I've ever heard someone say, "Yeah, I came away feeling really discouraged." But I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, and then he ... but then he did say that he left the fe- he left the meeting feeling more encouraged than he has been in many years. So what do you think about that?

Mack:
In the years that I've known and followed Andrew Knack as a councilor and, and now as a mayor, he's nothing if not optimistic, right? Like he's-

Stephanie:
(laughs) Yeah.

Mack:
He's among the most optimistic people that has ever served on council, and I think that's really powerful in most cases. It's really easy to be negative and pessimistic and cynical and all the rest of it, and I appreciate that Mayor Knack usually tries to take the, "Well, but what if?" And, "But this is a, actually a good thing." Like, he tries to take that op- uh, optimistic view of things. Having said all that, I feel like maybe the optimistic view when it comes to Premier Danielle Smith is just a way of dealing with the situation. Like, I don't know how you can be an elected official on Edmonton City Council and feel particularly inspired or optimistic by our premier. I just think that is a real challenge. If you care about Edmonton and all the people in it, it's pretty hard to be optimistic about our premier right now. That's me saying that, not our mayor. So I will take his optimism with a grain of salt. All right. Well, thanks, Stephanie, for bringing us some intelligence from our mayor. It's always a great opportunity to talk to him and find out a little bit more about how he's thinking about these things. You know, that's one of the interesting things about he's been in the job now for a couple of months. It's like you learn a lot every day in that job, and so the way he thinks about things will evolve over time because he's gonna learn all these new things and meet all these new people, so pretty interesting to get to tap into that from time to time.

Stephanie:
Yeah. One thing that it seems like council has not learned and has not ... is not evolving o- over is their approach to agenda management.

Mack:
Oh, no.

Stephanie:
(laughs)

Mack:
I thought it was gonna be better.

Stephanie:
I know. So other than this interview with Andrew Knack, council was also still in meetings this week. Um, they had a public hearing. They had a orientation session, and they had just a regular city council meeting. So they had this public hearing, and they only got to three items on the agenda, and one of them, they didn't debate it barely. It just basically passed right away. So they took the whole day for two rezoning applications. Uh, both of them were multiplexes in mature neighborhoods. They spent the whole morning and a lot of the afternoon talking about a project in Crestwood. This project in Crestwood, originally the developer had planned to do 11 units with no on-site parking, and then after feedback from the community, they changed it, the plan, to six condos with underground parking, two for each unit. And-

Mack:
Two for each? Wow.

Stephanie:
Yeah, and still they spent the whole day talking about it. They spent a bunch of time talking about whether they should postpone the item to the next public hearing s- to do more engagement, but they were like, "Nothing's gonna change about the development, so what's the point?" And then they just ended up passing it. O- and this is where the episode title comes from because it was a 7-6 vote, so that's the end the year on a tight vote. Uh, but yeah. What do you, what do you think about that, Mack?

Mack:
(laughs) So they approved the reduction in unit size, the increase in-... parking, on-site parking.

Stephanie:
Yeah, so basically to build the underground parking, they needed an increase in height so that's why they needed to upzone. And I will say, this is just the plans that the developer said, that they're under no obligation to build this six-unit condo building. They could build I think it's a m- a- and I don't think there's a maximum cap on the unit size. And- and that was a bit of what was debated is that they wanted, they, there was no assurance that this smaller thing with parking would be built.

Mack:
And presumably the reason that we need to add the parking is economic viability of the project, a little bit of residents complaining that there won't be enough parking on the street? Is that what it is? Or what, why, why do we need to go from 11 to 6 and add parking?

Stephanie:
The developer says it's because of resident concerns. So they didn't want an 11-unit building with no parking, so they went for, to a six-unit with parking, and yet still, like over 100 people wrote in to oppose it, and Councillor Reid Clark, who this is his ward said he got more than 100 more emails, so. And it just, they spent the whole day talking about it, and it, and what I'm trying to get to here is that it seems like the whole agenda management issue is not going to be fixed with this new council term.

Mack:
Or maybe it can be once they have an opportunity like this to see how it can go off the rails and then they can come and, you know, address that. But just, so that's a challenge.

Stephanie:
Yes.

Mack:
The other challenge here that I'm sensing, 'cause I didn't listen to this debate, is that this is an infill project in a mature neighborhood that with 11 units and no parking would seem to be aligned with our city plan goals around increasing density and shifting transportation modes. And what this council did was spend the whole day talking about it and then decide to go against that. Have I got that mostly right?

Stephanie:
Yeah, that's actually something that some of the other councilors brought up is they said, "Normally, like we should be pushing for even more units here. We shouldn't be going from 11 units to 6 units. Should be sticking at 11 units." But it did, like I said, it did end up, the rezoning ended up passing, so if the developer stays true to his word, asterisk, asterisk, asterisk there will be six units there instead of 11.

Mack:
Yeah, I feel like budget is the primary opportunity for council to really, you know, I guess put- put their money where their mouth is, right? And- and really implement things that they think are important. But these kinds of debates, I think, also are quite significant in that whole process. And, you know, if you can't stand up to one developer on a little project like this to defend what we've agreed is the direction that we want to go as a city, that's pretty concerning, I think.

Stephanie:
Yeah, and that's part of why I love public hearings so much, like whenever one comes up on the agenda, because it's such an interesting thing because what other piece of the municipal government is decided on such a granular level?

Mack:
Right.

Stephanie:
Like they're literally deciding whether or not there should be five extra housing units on this one particular lot. And that's not actually 100% true because they don't a- approve design plans.

Mack:
Right.

Stephanie:
They just approve the zone. So that's not e- exactly true, but again, if we trust what the developer's saying, they're going in and just saying, "No, there should be five fewer houses on this lot, and- and just 12 more parking stalls." It's just such an interesting little piece of municipal government.

Mack:
I think that's a good clarification, right? This is not the direct control zones of old. They're not specifically approving five units or six units or 11 units. They're saying we're gonna move from this zone to this zone, which allows them to do these things that they want to do.

Stephanie:
Exactly, yeah. And that, that is an important distinction to make because, like I said, the developer could go and build whatever he wants in- in- inside of that zone, which I think it's a, it's a 12-meter high, which would be about three or four stories.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
But it, like Councillor Janz was saying this six-unit, again, this proposed, hypothetical six-unit thing, would be great to have in his ward of Papastew, because i- like it's a, it's a, it's another form of missing middle.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
And yet we're spending all this time debating it. (laughs)

Mack:
One other quick question. I'm wondering about that parking aspect. So we didn't go from no parking to one unit of parking for each unit. We went from no parking to two parking spots per unit. That's what you're saying. That seems crazy. Was there any discussion about why? Is it just about the residents' concerns? Because I got to tell you, any public hearing debate that comes up where there's a rezoning for an infill development, like you can guaranteed look at the responses that were received and they're 100% about parking. Like that is not a complaint that's gonna go away, and I don't think it's appropriate for council to say, "Oh my goodness. The residents are complaining about parking. We better allow them to put in a whole bunch of m- more parking," 'cause nobody goes for the parking and that's always gonna be the complaint. So anyway, any, any explanation for why we had to add so much parking on this project?

Stephanie:
Based on what I heard from the, from the discussion that I listened to, it really was just residents wanted it to be completely contained on the site, and you're totally right that the number one complaint is parking. I remember getting a comment on one of my stories-

Mack:
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:
Or I remember I published an On the Agenda, which is when I look at all of the agendas for the next week and I kind of summarize what's going on, and for a bunch of the rezoning applications, I'd said, you know, "Residents oppose this application because of parking, traffic, neighborhood character." Those are always the top three things. And someone commented and said, "It's not always about parking." And I said, "Yes, it is."

Mack:
It is.

Stephanie:
If you look at the report, it'll be, that's always the top thing is parking. Un- like there's been, I can probably count on both hands the number of rezoning applications that had opposition that didn't have parking as the top thing.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
It is almost always about parking.

Mack:
Absolutely.

Stephanie:
And yeah, you're right, though, it's just always gonna un- unless we reinstate parking minimums, (laughs) um, I think it's just gonna continue to be that way.

Mack:
Which we had better not ever do, right? This is, that would be going in the wrong direction. So we just need to accept the fact that people are always gonna complain about parking, but it actually, in the end, isn't gonna materially matter for their decision-making.

Stephanie:
No.

Mack:
Like, if everyone complains about parking everywhere, then it's not a deciding factor, right? So, I think the sooner we can realize that, the better. All right, we got to move on, but you did say there were three items. They went and passed one right away and talked about this one. What was the other item?

Stephanie:
So for the public hearing, they spent the... basically the rest of the afternoon on a rezoning in Grosvenor, along 149th Street, and this is one of the neighborhoods that is going to abut the new Valley Line LRT. And one of the main things that the community members brought up is that now that the LRT is there, the traffic flow in and around the neighborhoods has completely changed because there's certain exits and entrances that you can't turn right or turn left. And Mayor Andrew Knack said, "Well, I don't know if this is necessarily an issue with this particular rezoning. Is it instead... Do we need to change traffic lights and traffic flow and one ways and all this stuff?" I, I thought that was, that was interesting, that maybe solution... the solution isn't to stop all new cars from moving into the neighborhood. The solution is, how can we do both, have traffic changes and how can we keep people moving into the neighborhood?

Mack:
Yeah, I feel like most of the time when I drive around across LRT tracks and stuff like that, Edmonton is, like, way too far on the other end of the spectrum from places like, I don't know, India or Vietnam or whatever, like, where they have no rules on the road right? And anybody... j- you just drive wherever and, like, you take your life into your own hands when you cross the street or turn into traffic or something. Here, it's like the complete opposite. Like, there are so much time between the light and the train and the arms and all the rest of it. Like, it just adds to that frustration for people, right? So, you know, we've talked a lot on this show over the years about signaling and timing and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I think just thinking about, how do we make things move more efficiently and, and importantly, like, apply the airport principle, right? The reason you have to walk so far from the airplane to the baggage claim is because by the time you get there, your bags are likely there and it won't feel like you had to wait so long, right? That sort of, that user experience is designed intentionally to reduce your frustration, and I feel like we need to apply that same kind of thinking when we, when we look at traffic flow, especially around transit as we build that out. All right, well, you, you mentioned the, the agenda management is a bit of a concern. Thankfully, it sounds like it was also a concern for the mayor.

Stephanie:
Yeah, so about partway through the afternoon on this day someone moved to postpone all the remaining agenda items, so that was about ten items. And (laughs) he... This is, like, the first time, or one of the first times that I've ever heard Andrew Knack sound a bit annoyed and fed up, because one of the other councilors said, "Okay, so..." So they got postponed to sometime in January, another public hearing in January, and one of the councilors said, "Okay, how many items do we have already at this meeting?" And he just went, "A lot." (laughs)

Mack:
(laughs)

Stephanie:
And I went, "Oh, someone's a little angy." So maybe they'll start to learn and they'll start to reel it in, but I don't... a part of me doesn't think so.

Mack:
Could be, could be a bit of a snowball, right? So...

Stephanie:
Yeah. And before we move on from this, I just want... when you brought up the traffic stuff, I wanted to bring up one small thing. Speaking of, you know, traffic feedback let's move over to Belgravia. Uh, the city is looking for feedback on traffic in Belgravia, so another sort of public hearing-esque thing. Um, we'll put a note in the, or put it in the episode notes, but they are looking for you to complain about traffic in Belgravia. So if you live in Belgravia and you want to complain and try to make it better, please send in your send in your feedback. There's lots of interesting comments in there already. (laughs)

Mack:
It's fascinating. It's like the, "Tell us what you think about the BMO site. Everyone hates it."

Stephanie:
(laughs) Yeah.

Mack:
"Tell us what you think about driving through Belgravia. It's too much traffic." Like, they know what they're going to get. Okay.

Stephanie:
Yeah, exactly. (laughs)

Mack:
There was another item that council talked about this week that you thought would be worth bringing up.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
Electoral boundaries.

Stephanie:
Yes, so council met in private to discuss the Electoral Boundaries Commission proposed new draft boundaries. They made some changes to them which would see Edmonton gain half a seat. And I say half because they would share that seat with Enoch Cree Nation.

Mack:
This is provincial boundaries-

Stephanie:
Yes.

Mack:
... just to clarify, right? Not federal, 'cause they're... that's a separate thing. Yeah.

Stephanie:
Yeah, so the, the draft came out a little over a month ago. I, I was deep in m- municipal elections, so I was, like, not paying attention. But now all of the municipalities around the region are giving feedback on whether they think the new seats make sense. And Edmonton, s- it seems like they didn't like them. They met in private, so we don't know exactly what was said, but it seems like what the city is gonna say is, "We don't like this."

Mack:
And, and why? What, what does the city... what is... what... To the best of our knowledge, what is Edmonton looking for here?

Stephanie:
I think the main thing is that the seat should not cross municipal boundaries. That's a new rule that was... So they used to not be able to do that at all. The UCP has changed that so that it can cross municipal boundaries, and now Edmonton is saying, "We don't like that. We should... It should all be contained within Edmonton." And then the second thing, I don't know if this is at all even a possibility, if it's going to be in the, like, official letter that they send, but Mayor Knack indicated that Edmonton should get even more seats because of population growth, because so many people are moving to Edmonton. We shouldn't just get this, like, one seat, half a seat. We should get even more seats.

Mack:
Right. That makes sense to me. I mean, that's where the population is. That's where the decision power should come from. Okay, and then what about the other municipalities around the region? Where... What are they saying?

Stephanie:
Yeah, so Beaumont is proposed to be split into two, and they would... those two halves of the city would join, like, the adjoining or adjacent municipalities. And Beaumont said, "No, please don't do that."

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
Because, I, Beaumont is really, like I'll say, quote unquote, "urban," like the urban Beaumont is much different than the surrounding area. Um, Spruce Grove sent feedback to align... to ask it to align better to its growth pattern that it's experiencing. South Cone County is also pushing back against the boundaries. But St. Albert said-... it's fine.

Mack:
(laughs)

Stephanie:
(laughs) So, so, we'll s- we'll see what happens.

Mack:
Uh, do we know when this is expected, or what the- the next step is on electoral boundaries and what we'll f- what we'll hear next?

Stephanie:
So what's next is that the commission is going to hold public hearings in January, this upcoming January, to get more feedback. It's accepting written submissions until the 20 or until the 19th, so if you're listening quickly write up some written submissions if you want. And then the commission must submit its final report to the speaker within five months, but that was written about a month ago, so in about four months.

Mack:
Yeah. Okay. Well we'll keep an eye on that and hopefully learn more about Edmonton's official position on those boundaries. Well, we're coming to the end of the episode, but we had just one more thing we thought we would touch on, so a bit of a look ahead to 2026, specifically as it relates to city council and what the city's going to deal with. There's a lot of things coming up that are on the agenda, that are on the items due list, that we know are gonna happen in 2026. The big one, of course, is the four-year budget. We've talked about that a lot, and we'll- we'll get into that more in the year. But I thought it'd be fun to just kinda talk a- quickly about some things that caught your eye, some things that caught my eye, that are expected back in 2026. So Stephanie, what are you looking forward to from council in the new year?

Stephanie:
Oh, there's so much, so many reports to... reports to get into. I love reports. Okay, coming in February are proposed changes to the zoning bylaw, basically to reduce the mid-block units in the RS zone to reduce the impact of height on the adjacent properties in the RS zone, so that's probably gonna be like step-backs. Um, it's not to reduce the height, it's to reduce the impact of height.

Mack:
Right.

Stephanie:
And then also options to support the maintenance and retention of trees on private property so that could potentially have a private tree bylaw.

Mack:
I'm looking forward to that one as well.

Stephanie:
(laughs)

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
And then just jumping ahead to March a little bit more, changes to the zone... or proposed changes to the zoning bylaw would be, they asked for a report analyzing feedback provided by the Residential Infill Working Group, and they're looking for proposed amendments to the zoning bylaw for additional architectural articulation and design considerations for the RS zone for row houses. So make eightplexes more pretty, please.

Mack:
And then some other zoning stuff will be later in the year. Down in September, I noticed, is when we're expected to see some amendments to district policy and those district plans, so that could be pretty interesting. Uh, couple things caught my eye for March coming up. So we're gonna hear about some next steps on BRT. We heard the mayor talk to you about bus rapid transit. Uh, there's a report due back to explain kind of what are the options and what are the next steps here. Um, and then there's some kinda nerdy ones that are also related to what you talked about around economic development. So they've had this pre- plan to do a- a review of the economic development agencies. Uh, that was delayed, and also this external agency shared services is delayed. So this is kinda two parts. They're different reports, but I see them as sort of connected, right? It's like for Explore Edmonton and Edmonton Global and all these agencies involved in economic development I think the question essentially is, "Are we getting our money's worth here?" And then the second one, the shared services one, is should all these organizations have their own email and HR and finance and all the rest of it, or is there benefit in the city providing some shared services to all those agencies? Would things work more efficiently? I suspect we're gonna hear no, but I'm looking forward to, you know, what that report teases out.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Also in March options for an incentive program for transit-oriented development. Ooh.

Mack:
We need carrots and we need sticks.

Stephanie:
Yes. (laughs)

Mack:
So let's figure out the carrot. Yeah.

Stephanie:
And then you have some notes in here for some stuff coming in April?

Mack:
Yeah, there's an economic development strategy refresh. I think this one's a little bit more for the City of Edmonton as a corporation, but, you know, any time they start to talk about strategy, I think that's pretty interesting. And then I'm a bit more concerned about another one that I... is- is due back in April that it... we've been talking about a little bit, corporate and reputation strategy. This one is a little bit of, like, what is the Edmonton, City of Edmonton's corporate strategy and our reputation? But it quickly can spiral into how is Edmonton represented around the world, which gets us all into "We are the champions" and branding and all the rest of it. So that one could be a can of worms to open up, especially, you know, that's into Q2. Councillors will have had about six months under their belts. Maybe those new councilors are ready to dive into something like that, that can be very controversial and meaty. We'll see where that goes. How about in May?

Stephanie:
Oh, there is one urban planning committee meeting in May that I am so excited for. Um, city employees, I know you're listening. Do not dare delay any of these reports, 'cause I will be so sad. I'm g- that's gonna be the best day of my life.

Mack:
(laughs)

Stephanie:
There's going to be a report about transforming Edmonton's curbside and parking program. What does that mean? Well, basically, on-street parking is a very valuable asset for the city, and it's usually stock full of private property, so i.e. cars.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
And this report is meant to kind of reevaluate how we share that space. Uh, very excited for that, plus a report on parking benefit districts. We've talked about the old Strathcona Public Realm Strategy, how, you know, that parking lot, if we could take the revenue from that parking lot and then use it to directly improve the rest of the neighborhood. Uh, council kind of voted that down, but this would be another chance to bring that back up. And then also, a report on the safe mobility strategy for 2027 to 2030 which is kind of we've talked about this, the Vision Zero stuff. This would be like, "Uh, okay, what's next for the next three years?"

Mack:
Yeah. It'll be very interesting to hear both what we're willing to fund and commit to and- and how much the timelines have changed, and I suppose to some extent if Vision Zero remains in favor with this council and this administration.

Stephanie:
Mm-hmm.

Mack:
How about in the summer before we get into summer break?

Stephanie:
Yeah, the, just t- one thing that I noticed is an updated climate action plan for 2027 to 2030. That's a can of worms too. Like, who even knows what's gonna be going on in June.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
Maybe they'll be talking about this while the s- uh, the skies are full of smoke, maybe it'll be when we're in the middle of torrential downpour, who knows?

Mack:
I mean, it would be terrible if there are more wildfires, but of course, it would be the best thing that could happen for this climate action plan, just that sort of recency thing, right?

Stephanie:
(laughs) Yeah, for sure.

Mack:
And, and if it's, if it's front and center, it's gonna make the decisions that they make so much different, right?

Stephanie:
Mm-hmm.

Mack:
Uh, review of Public Spaces Bylaw in September, and then there was one small thing that I noticed coming up i- it's due back in October, so we'll see when we get there, but it's called Visible Investments. And the whole idea here is this proactive signage. The province is better at this I think, but this would be the city putting out signage to say, "Renewal is gonna come to this area," or, "This project is gonna come to here." They would have QR codes so you could scan the QR code and go learn more about it. And so this caught my eye for two reasons, Stephanie. One is, I think that's fantastic. We should be doing that, that should be part of our communications. Yes, lean into the QR codes. Everybody is familiar with them now, we use those. And then the second reason is, like, why does it take so long to get things that seem so basic? What? (laughs) October? We can't get to that till October? Anyway, among many other things in 2026.

Stephanie:
(laughs)

Mack:
I'm not, I'm not ignorant to the fact that there are a lot of items on the agenda and items to do list, but...

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
Oh, some of them seem like low-hanging fruit, you know?

Stephanie:
I know. Believe me, I know.

Mack:
All right. Well, that brings us to the end of our little preview, a little bit of excitement about some things to look forward to into 2026. And of course, we'll be doing the show throughout the year, so we'll be able to keep you informed about all of that. Uh, this feels like a good opportunity to say thank you to you for listening to Speaking Municipally this year. Uh, we passed 300,000 all-time downloads this year.

Stephanie:
Whoo.

Mack:
And the last few months have been the highest ever, so we're really glad to have you with us and all the new people that have started listening to the show. Thank you so much for joining us.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Thank you so much for, for joining us and sticking around. If you love the show, please give us a rating in your podcast app of choice or on several podcast apps. There's nothing stopping you from rating us on every platform.

Mack:
That's true.

Stephanie:
And tell a friend. We wanna reach even more people to keep them informed about what city council's up to each week, you know? We try to make city council more accessible, easy to understand, and dare I say, fun. So if you have anyone in your life who wants to be more educated about and involved with municipal politics, please, please, please send them our way.

Mack:
This was a year also of change for our show. We had Troy Pawlik, our co-founder and longtime host leave of, of course, in the summer there with the election. We had several other kinda ups and downs throughout the year, which is typical. I think if you ask anyone so far about how their 2025 went-

Stephanie:
(laughs) Oh.

Mack:
... it's kind of, like, mixed seems t- nobody's like, "Oh, it was an amazing year," at least not that I've talked to.

Stephanie:
(laughs)

Mack:
But, but change is good, right? And we're working on making the show even better in 2026. We've got some other ideas that we're excited to explore, some other things we're gonna do to hopefully, you know, make the show more accessible and fun, as you were saying, Stephanie. And you, dear listener, can help with that. So please send us a note to hello@taproottedmonton.ca if you have any feedback or suggestions or ideas. Maybe you want more guests on the show, maybe you'd like us to do more explainers or deep dives. Maybe you like things how they are. Maybe you wanna complain about the fact that we don't do the rapid fire anymore. Whatever it is we're looking forward to hearing from you, so send us a note.

Stephanie:
Yeah, and we also wanted to say thank you to Kashria for helping us out with editing this year. Uh, they are true angels 'cause they have to listen to my rambling and somehow assemble it into something half easy to listen to. So thank you, thank you, thank you. If you're in need of podcast production services, check them out. Erica and Steven are wonderful to work with.

Mack:
Thanks also to the entire Taproot team for all the hard work involved in making this show a reality each week. So the news and information that we publish on our website and our newsletters, it's all free to read, to listen to, but of course, it's not free to make. So if you wanna support our efforts and support our team, we really encourage you to become a Taproot member. You can find out all about that at taproottedmonton.ca/join. And because we're so close to Christmas, if you're looking for a last minute gift, something that might be f- perfect for that person in your life who needs some local information in connection, you can now buy a gift membership for Taproot as well. So head over to taproottedmonton.ca/gift to do that.

Stephanie:
All right. So we're gonna be off for the next couple of weeks, and we're gonna be returning to your podcast stream on Friday, January 9th. Join us then wherever you get your podcasts.

Mack:
Happy holidays, everyone.

Stephanie:
Happy holidays.

Mack:
And until then, I'm Mack.

Stephanie:
I'm Stephanie.

Mack:
And we're...

Both:
Speaking Municipally.